To think there has to be a gentler method than CIO for 13 month old?

[Pondlife87]

My baby is 13.5 months old and sleep just gets worse. She wakes up around 6-8 times a night. I'm working and I can't take it anymore. I have been against CIO/ sleep training but everyone is suffering and something has to give.
I've posted on a sleep training forum about it and people have said that she's too old and alert now for anything except CIO full extinction to work.
Please somebody tell me that they managed something a little less severe with their child at a similar age? I will do it if I have to, but only if it's the last option.

We currently have a bedtime routine which has been in place for about 7 months. We've broken the feed to sleep association. We've got black out blinds and we play white noise at night.
We've tweaked bed times numerous times, which only seems to make things worse. I've tried all the recommended gentle sleep methods for months at a time, with no change.

I'm at a loss of what else to do.

You need to do a gradual method.

But

Know that any change isnt going to be what she wants, so she will cry. This does not mean you need to leave her crying. But you find ways of comforting that gradually reduce the need for you to constantly be there in person. If you have not night weaned you have not broken the feed to sleep association. Be warned - because she is 13m this will take weeks, especially because a toddler that age is mobile and far more able to fight change.

1. Night wean. Send DH in, you cant be there. Start with the earliest feed in the night and reduce one by one, with 3 day gaps between dropping each one to allow her to adjust. She will cry. Get him to get her to sleep any other way - rocking, patting etc but NO boob.

1. Stop rocking her to sleep.

Rock until drowsy. Then try patting, then reduce to a hand on stomach.

The aim is to work until you are patting to sleep not rocking.

Then reduce patting til drowsy, and just leave hand on tummy.

Then you have to go cold turkey on hand on tummy. Stay in the room, sing or hush etc.

Then you work on being out of the room. Stand gradually further from cot. Then stand in the doorway
Then stand in the hall outside singing.

It's a good idea to give her a blanket, comforter or cuddly toy.

My experience was almost exactly the same as @CoodleMoodle. We did controlled crying and it worked and never went past 10 mins (although I know it can take much longer for others). I dropped the last 3am feed at about 14 months, replaced by me carrying them up and down the corridor until they fell asleep (although I'd also already stopped day feeds).

What @NoIDontWatchLoveIsland said.

We’ve never done any form of CC/cry it out and DS was similar. It’s been very very gradual! At 11 months I might weaned by sending DH in in the night. He would sit by the cot and rub his back til he went to sleep (with very little crying). The wake ups reduced to one and we would just take him into our bed (was usually around 4am). By 20 months he was getting more wriggly so we did the going in/reassuring him and also got a gro clock. He’s over 2 now and we’re working on trying to get him to fall asleep at the start of the night by himself (up til now we’ve always stayed in his room, reading/on phone not engaging with him). Could have done it much sooner but I actually liked the quiet time in the evening!

If all she wants is a suck, give her a dummy. Leave several dummies in the cot so that if she wakes she's likely to find one.

FWIW i don't think total blackout is much help to a baby locating the nearest dummy.

I did Gina Ford's 'Contented little baby' routine with my twins from when they were about 4 months old. It's very schedule/routine-driven, and the first couple of nights were the worst thing ever. But both were sleeping through the night within a fortnight. It saved my sanity.

I recently passed the book to my SIL, who has been struggling with her 6 month olds sleep. She wasn't keen at first, but decided to give it ago. Then a month later, her DD was also sleeping through the night.

Another vote for pick up and put down.
As long as you know for sure she isnt hungry, my husband and I took turns to go back in every 5 mins. They know you are there but it is bed time.

I wouldnt do CIO but we did do controlled crying (dh by the cot with a bottle of water, baby howling for the boob). 4 nights of hell but it was so worth it for some unbroken sleep. The No Cry Sleep Solution didnt work for us, ime there will be some crying.

There’s a sleep training in lockdown thread in the Sleep section OP, which you might find interesting when deciding what to do.

No advice but I’ve sleep trained (with mixed success!) my 6mo recently and can’t believe I didn’t do it with my eldest. I calculated I spent the equivalent of 8 weeks 9-5 sitting in the dark feeding/rocking etc him to sleep in his first year!

Mines nearly a year and exactly the same. Tried night weaning, still wakes up for a cuddle, tried dad, still wakes up for dad. So we have come to a compromise. She goes to sleep in her cot with the same routine now every night without being fed, rocked etc to sleep which I thought would 'fix the problem' but she wakes up every hour so we resettle her and then she joins us in bed to co sleep where she usually goes 4 hours a time. So we get an evening and she gets better quality sleep too instead of having to be resettled. I can't leave her to cry, I just can't so I'm stuck here for the moment having tried what I feel happy to at the moment. I have GREAT sympathy for you and hope you can find something to help yourself. I've just lowered my expectations and hoping for a happy shock of her not waking after an hour or two in her cot one day as I don't know what else to do for now. She gets plenty of sleep in the day so it's a mystery to me why she still wakes xx

Sleep deprivation is awful, I feel for you. I remember 13 months as being a funky developmental leap, check wonder weeks. CIO might work, might not, might cause issues with attachment and emotional development or she could be perfectly fine. Is there any way you and your partner could swap nights so at least one of you got a good night's sleep? I may have booked a hotel room for a night... obviously not possible right now and not ideal either. What you have to remember is, it does get better, just takes time.

My DS was up 5x+ a night too. I was working FT and it broke me. I cried all over the place abd that's not me! Weird how sleep deprivation affected my emotions.
He's now 16 months and sleeps most nights.
He did cry. It was hard. But we're all so much happier now.
This is what we did. Hope it can help you...

1. stop bf to sleep. DP spend 3 nights with a crying DS rocking to sleep but he got it.
2. DP put DS in his cot awake but sang and patted him to sleep. Lots of crying and after 3 nights it got easier.
3. after a wk of the above we just sang and lay him back down if he cried, no patting. Another 3 days of crying but it got better. At this point he was still waking 4+ times a night and needed singing back to sleep. I never want to hear 'here we go round the Mulberry bush' ever again. So once he was used to lying in his cot to go to sleep, albeit with singing, we did CC. On a day when he was happy and settled we did our usual routine but instead of sitting and singing to him for 45 mins we left the room. We did 1,2,4,8 mins doubling each time before we went back in. We spoke to him, reassured him, lay him back down but left after 1 min. No picking up. He went to sleep AFTER 4 MINS! Why the fook didn't I do this sooner? He slept better from that very first night. The worst but for us was that first night when he woke at 11 and wanted singing back to sleep he cried for about 45 mins. But after that was able to self settle. He's not perfect but sleeps through 4 nights out of 7. It's hard hearing your baby cry but take time and patience and everyone can have their lives back.

I should add we did this when DS was 13/14 months.

Another vote for just stick it out. I know it's incredibly hard but often things like this seem harder because subconsciously we worry that this is now our life forever. It isn't. It won't be long until it naturally gets easier. My DD was the same and suddenly at 18 months things got much better, then at around 26 months or so (can't remember exactly now) she started to sleep through. I'm so glad now I didn't do any sleep training. I'd rather under-perform at work for a few months than risk my child's trust in me being affected by not reliably being there when she cries for me- day or night.

I would check out @careitoutsleepconsultant on instagram or search for her website www.careitout.com. She is a sleep consultant that does not use CIO/CC. In regards to night weaning, at 12 months I gradually reduced the length of feeds and then when feeds were less than 5 minutes I would offer DS a drink of water. I did this consistently for 2 weeks and then after the 2 weeks I would go him and just settle back to sleep with a dummy/rocking. He now either sleeps through or wakes up once and just needs a dummy putting back in and I can leave the room....don't have to pick him up etc.

I did attempt sleep training when he was 10 months and the programme I bought used CC. It was horrendous and I didn't last very long. Listening to him cry alone was soul destroying.

I'm in the same boat as you. Did CC when she was 5 months old and it worked, she started sleeping through some nights and wouldn't wake up much. Then she started teething and it felt inappropriate to keep using that method. Regretfully I started feeding her to sleep and she was waking up 10 times a night, every hour!
She's 12 months now so I decided to night wean her and stop letting her fall asleep on the breast. Night weaning is hard and sometimes she wouldn't last until 7am without feeding but she's now got used to it.
Now she wakes up 1 to 3 times and its more manageable. Before night time and naps I make sure I take her off the breast before she's fully asleep and hold her for a bit but strictly without rocking or moving her. I know I'm also creating a sleep association by holding her but I find because she's older, if I let her cry she gets histerical and besides herself.

When I went back to work I’d get my baby out of the cot and give her a big dream feed as late as possible before I went to bed eg 10 or 11. She’d normally just take it sleeping and that would see her through.

We also used controlled crying...couldn’t leave her to cry it out as when I tried she would throw up. It was horrible but worked but there have been phases we have had to revisit it when she’s had a regression but better that than cosleeping for us because I couldn’t handle that when at work....you give these babies an inch and they’ll take a mile and be in bed with you all night every night. I think on some level we found you need to show them who is boss and give them some boundaries...without being too harsh about it.

That worked for us but i can see why some people like cosleeping it is lovely but not when u have a little wriggler and have work the next day.

I did a form of sleep training at 16mo!
Essentially our problem was the we rocked/cuddled her to sleep, so when she woke in the night she needed that t get back to sleep.
We slowly transitioned her to self settling, we started with her in her bed and us laying next to her, then we moved to being sat next to her, then we moved to just holding her hand and then just sat in the chair next to her etc
It was long winded but I wasn’t comfortable with her crying and it worked for us in about a month, she’s 22m now and I still sit next to her because I’m settling her baby sister but she’s asleep in minutes and sleeps through completely for 12-14hours :) I hope you find what works for you!

We did controlled crying too, at about 1. Our problem was getting DS down at all, not the night waking so much. It took maybe 2 nights and now we pop him in the cot, he rolls onto his front and sleeps for 12 hours.

If you have the money sleep consultant is great. Andrea Grace was brilliant. Not cheap but helps things very quickly.

My DS was an awful sleeper. We had pretty much the same problems as you, relied on being fed or rocked to sleep. We did some gentle sleep training. There was no leaving him to CIO. But there was some crying. I stayed in the room next to the cot the whole time, comforting, cuddling but not picking up. The first day was hard, but after that things got so much better.

Just out of curiosity did those who did the sleep training just put baby in cot at bedtime then stayed next to/slept next to etc? Or did you rock/feed them until they were a bit more sleepier?

I think if I just put my daughter in her cot whilst she was awake but at her bed time without rocking her she would stay awake for hours

Oh my gosh all this sleep training culture talk. 'Problems', 'sleep associations', 'bad habits'. I used to buy this too but by now I don't think it's true at all. Children naturally become more better sleepers over time, just like they naturally become more independent, it's not the case that 'if you start off with bad habits/associations' it can never be undone again (and so purportedly justifies the most horrible stuff, like letting your child cry until they vomit). I fed to sleep for a very long time and it did NOT mean DD then woke up after every sleep cycle because she could only go back to sleep with the same sleep association. All that language is designed to convince you you have a 'problem' that requires an 'expert' to come and 'fix' for a (usually astronomical) fee, and 'if you don't act now' basically all chance is gone to ever have a sleeping child. (rolls eyes)

OP google The Beyond Sleep Training Project, they have lots of information and advice on things other than sleep training that can help, there's a Facebook group too.

Dd1 was a nightmare with sleep. My desperation not recommended by any professionals tactics were as follows:
Night weaning; I started by restricting, so if she was asleep by 8 she couldn't have a feed until after 12.00, then not until after 5.00. If she woke up in between I would rock her to sleep. If she screamed at me during rocking then I would put her in the cot and walk away for a second or two. She soon learned to accept rocking, and started just waking at feed times. Obviously the drawback was that by using the cot as a punishment it made it harder to get her to fall asleep in it. When she was 2 I ended up putting her awake in the cot and sitting next to her. She screamed for 40 minutes the first 2 nights but it was more like a tantrum at that age than the hysterical screaming she used to do around 13months when we tried sleep training. Dd 2 is a total cosleeper and I have no idea how I'll fix that one, but however impossible it may seem now you will get it sorted somehow.

@Pippinsqueak
We put them in the cot, tucked in and kissed goodnight etc, then left the room. Stood outside the door whilst they shouted for 1min, then opened it again and shushed/spoke quietly to them until they calmed down. Then went back outside and started timing 2mins.

Both of mine started shouting pretty much as soon as we walked away on the first two nights, but by the third and fourth they were just moaning rather than getting upset. By day 7, DD was chatting to herself for five minutes before going quiet, and DS just zonked out straight away. (She was a bit older when we did it with her, though.)