To consciously take a back seat to parenting knowing that it will likely impact my son’s future

[Atadaddicted]

So - I’ll keep it brief.
My 11 year old son and I have a fraught relationship.

He is a very complex and tricky character. He is kind and empathetic but very very hard work and also been. Required intense parenting.
He is also very intelligent.

But to get him to do anything - be on time / not lose something / study - is forcing our relationship in to The gutter.

I am a bit micro management mother / “tiger mom”. I see that but not excessively. Although definitely on the higher end of having high expectations and pushing.

And I’m wondering whether anyone has been similar but decided to actively take a step back, knowing that it will likely lead to more punishment at school, late for things and ultimately not achieving as highly in exams as potential BUT a happier and more relaxed mother and son relationship?

It’s your job to help him develop independence as much as it is to help him get good grades etc. By all means do what you can to help him set up systems (list by the door of what he needs each day, sparks on his phone etc) but I think there’s more than one reason to step back from constant reminding which might feel to both of you like nagging.

Good parenting is helping children to learn for themselves, and standing back, but try and choose the things that will have long term negative impact on him.

One missed homework might well result in a demerit, but missing a whole term of homework will set him back to such a degree he may never catch up.

It is a balance, and you need to find the biting point. I have an 11 year old who is exactly the same, I let her make her mistakes and the next time I remind her gently of how she felt last time, the consequences and usually this is enough for her to make good decisions.

If you have strong armed your son into a very academic school and forced the results through hot housing him - not only are you putting his mental health and well being at risk, you could also be heading towards a full teenage rebellion in a few years when he has decided he has had enough, and at 6ft and pumped full of hormones ready to assert himself properly.
Breaking a child with tiger mums tactics will bite you so hard if you not careful. We have seen some tiger parenting that borders on abuse.

Lay off, let him take the lead, support quietly from the side lines. You are doing him no favours at all.

**Will NOT

It may impact more negatively on his future if you keep pushing him. I think there is a middle way here. If you are constantly nagging him he will react against it but he does need your encouragement , praise and support. Perhaps write down checklists of what he needs to remember and pin it to his wall and just remind him to check it the night before. When considering his future, academic success is one consideration, his mental and emotional health is another.It isn't only your relationship it's his overall happiness you need to keep in mind.

I completely agree with the suggestions about visual checklists and timetables.

Organisation and time-keeping are learned skills, not innate ones, so children need help in developing them.

I absolutely understand where you're coming from, OP. You'll need to take small steps backward from managing your DS, while giving him the ability to step up, rather than just drop him in it.

to get him to do anything - be on time / not lose something / study

Google 'Executive Function' it's all about self-organisation. There are a lot of tips online to help anyone struggling with it.

No, I think you are quite reasonable. If it was something like drugs or stealing or recklessness over infecting people with COVID 19, then it's different, and you would need to put your foot down. But at 11, I think having a good relationship with him is more important than micromanaging his schoolwork. By 11, he should be given some opportunity to take responsibility for his own work. If he does find that not working hard enough has some negative consequences like a detention or doing poorly in a test, this might do more to change his behaviour than if it's always a matter of following parental instructions. I see your point about getting into a renowned school - but would that school necessarily be the best for him?

Had he got ADHD? Because thats need a different kind of parenting - and even if he hasn't there are books aimed at parents of children with adhd that will give you some really useful ideas.

Keep doing what you are doing and expect the same as they say. Tread carefully because his limitations are not conscious choices - he doesn't want to forget or be useless. You may be making this worse for him.

It may also be related to not enough exercise/too much screen time/poor diet all of which provide symptoms that mimics the symptoms of ADHD. Or maybe that's just kids of a certain age.

One thing I do know is that being micro managed is the most soul destroying, self esteem sucking, least productive thing ever. Step back and stop focusing on what he's doing wrong. Find the things he does remember and praise them.

If he can't manage the work and the discipline required to achieve at the level you want for him, then you're pushing him to a level that's an unreasonable to expect of him. He will have to cope without you one day, so micro-managing him is doing him no favours. He's not learning how to be responsible for himself, and he's going to need nursing by others throughout, to maintain the level expected of him.

You have to decide. The super-duper platinum-coated school and having to continue the destructive micro-managing for the next seven years (presumably he needs to keep his place there), or a warm and loving relationship for the rest of your lives?

Explain to him that he is getting older now, so you're going to pass more of the responsibilities on to him. This will mean less nagging, but he will have to take any consequences if he forgets stuff, loses stuff etc.

Yep. Any change of policy has to come with a discussion. He will not be allowed to say later, that he wishes you'd pushed him harder. This has to be a decision that's as much his as yours, and recorded as such.
Or maybe you can say that once he has his school place, you'll step back and his teens will involve him taking more responsibility for himself?

Where are you in school years? I'm guessing Year 6 with scholarship/bursary exam in Spring of year 8?

How much does he want the super selective school? I have a son who sounds very similar, but he really wanted the aspirational school and worked his socks off. I must say that during the period of time he was working towards his entrance exams, I helped him as much as I could - drove him in if I was free, didn't nag him to hoover his room, made his packed lunch etc.

Once he was into the super selective, I stepped right back - he needed to know that I wasn't going to protect him from the consequences of his disorganisation. It took a term of fairly regular detentions, but he made lots of changes to his behaviour and by the summer of Year 9 he had massively grown up.

I think if your DS is not really bothered about the aspirational school, it will be very hard to push him to get there.

Natural consequences I think work best. Refuse to do homework, get a detention, miss the school bus so either walk home or pay the fare out of the pocket money. Don't rescue with a lift, sympathise about the consequences then the next time they refuse remind them of the consequences last time they refused.
Don't tidy their room, well if they lose something, don't have clean clothes etc don't rescue suggest they tidy their room to avoid it happening again but say no more.
Left their dirty smelly PE kit in the bag instead of putting it in the laundry don't write a note and excuse them either they wear the dirty kit or they get a detention or they wear the school's spare kit the choice is theirs.
With school it's easy to let the school discipline them for their shortcomings IME. If you've offered support and it's been rejected then they have to live with their choices.
FWIW Ds2 did many many detentions for failing to hand in homework because he lived in the here and now and so couldn't see how that game of football with friends now could lead to a detention for unfinished homework. He got better as he got older and could see where he wanted to go though so never missed a deadline for his degree or his masters. Sometimes maturity helps enormously
At home being rude or unhelpful well that's fine but I don't put myself out for people who are rude or unhelpful so no I won't give a lift because I'm doing the chore I asked you to do instead. No I won't do a favour for somebody who told me to get lost/shut up etc before school.
If you are consistent as well it stops many rows, I rarely had to say a word just gave them "the look" and they knew full well what my response would be. Mine are adults now and we laugh about "the look" and they egg each other on and then say "Mum, give him the look for that"

Tell him you will no longer micro manage him, but that it also means you will no longer act as a buffer between him and the consequences of him not managing himself.

Tell him that as he resents being managed by you, he will need to learn to do it himself, and that means he gains the right to self manage but also the responsibility to own the consequences. He won't have the right to be angry at you if he has to have a detention.

Tell him to use a wall calendar and timetable. Also tell him that if he asks for help, you will give it.

Then step back and let it happen. He wont come to any harm but his life may become more chaotic until either he learns to manage or asks for help.

Organisation and time-keeping are learned skills, not innate ones, so children need help in developing them.

I think this is the way forward - I do time checks and reminders and eventually they stop being needed. Bags and kit put where they lbelong and things having places, timetable checked though before they leave. If after that things are forgotten then they'll learn that way.

Way I was brought up - turns out I had dyspraxia and it's certainly possibly my children do as well so overly teaching orgnaisation skills little often and repeated is very necessary.

I'm not sure what's best with the school.

Our children have had to do more work at home to get past struggling phases - bribary, routine and on-line progrmas where possible worked best for us over many years.

Just re read your original post plus the thread. You need to consider ADHD carefully if he has always been like this - it starts around 3 or 4 but might not be apparent until school pressure starts to set in if he's not got the hyperactive type.

Dyspraxia/dyslexia and even autism are kind of related to this and each other and it's genetic so think about dad and whether he might have one of these too.

If he has it he will be exceptionally hurt by criticism and rejection, will not be able to remember things unless they are urgent (and even then urgent can only cover a certain number of things) or highly enjoyable/stimulating, will lose things far more than normal and will only be able to really pay attention to things he really enjoys but may also disappear down the rabbit hole with some.

So you're there saying 'well you remember to do x and y but not this'. And he wants to, but he can't. And every day he feels worse and further away from you. Don't count on lists either. They only work once. Then it's like they are invisible unless they are reviewed/changed together.

If he has this then by far your best bet is to be someone who he wants to be the best he can for. That is highly motivating though not perfect - and that requires you to be completely accepting, never critical or judgemental and to notice all of the things he does right but none of the things he does wrong. That person is very rarely a parent though - usually a teacher or grandparent.

Agree with brieandchilli pick your battles carefully but back away from others. Let him make his own mistakes

I am a bit micro management mother / “tiger mom”. I see that but not excessively. Although definitely on the higher end of having high expectations and pushing.

I mean this very kindly but although you are able to recognise this about yourself it is probably the case that you are quite a bit further along the pushiness spectrum than you perhaps realise.

You are (understandably) thinking about the next seven years or so, and his school career. What's easy to forget is that your parenting now will form the kind of adult he will be. How will your micro-management look when he is 25 or 30? Much better for him to learn the natural consequences of his actions within the safety of school and home IMHO.

I think this is the right approach OP. I was a high achiever as a child but only due to constant pushing from my mum who praised me for getting high marks but gave me endless shit for getting one single D in my whole school career. When I went to uni and didn't have her there to push me my discipline basically crumbled because it wasn't something I learned myself, and it turns out I had inattentive ADHD. Your son may end up being happier with a non-academic career or vocation but he'll only find that out if he's not being propped up by you.
It wjll help your relationship, reduce your own stress and ultimately help your DS to take a backseat approach. Be there to give him love and support - but his motivation must come from within, not without.

It's a balance. And you won't already get it right. Homework - on them. Support -that involves me. Me -do you have any homework set. Them -no. Me -Really no homework at all. Them -Yes but I've done it. Me -Great come down here and mop the floor/ do piano or whatever. OR excellent -here's your CGP book or you can just sit and read -but you are doing something.
Whilst preparing for 11 plus- aboslutely knuckle down and do it. Tough shit.

My youngest will do ANYTHING and I mean anything poke his own eyes to do any work.

Me
Timer started at start of set work: Total time take to complete work 6 hours and 44 minutes.
Timer started and stopped everytime he 'went to the toilet' etc so in other words -34 minutes.

So I said that is 6 hours and 10 minutes you could have spent doing your jobs and THEN chilling.
Next day -work done in 45 minutes -no time wasting.

Try to get F on board if possible, Mine does sweet FA but the eldest don't go to him now. TRY though to get him F on board -ask him if he can help even if it insisting on an hour's reading a day on the days he is with them.

I could have written your post ten years ago, and I really wish I’d had the courage of my convictions. It would have done my son more good in the long run.

There would be no point in going to this great school if he is unable to motivate himself to work hard.

My DD's prep school had many parents who micro-managed/hot housed their kids into high achieving schools at 11+. But once those kids got there, were not able to sustain that level of work, either through their own effort or without their parents pushing them. And in high school the number of subjects/,level of work gets harder so no amount of propping up by the parent is going to work.

Parenting isn't just about the formal grades and academic chievement, but is about preparing them to be able to stand on their own two feet once formal education ends.

My DD is intelligent but also has ASD. The things you mentioned in post made me wonder if your DS has issues with his executive function. As others have mentioned ADHD & dyspraxia they recognise this too. ASD, ADHD, dyspraxia and dyslexia overlap in issues with executive function. If this is the case then your son will struggle a lot with time management, remembering things and when to study. Even when he tries hard with these he will struggle.

For him to become more resilient he’ll need you to support him initially. He’ll need structure to follow eg set times in the day to study (don’t make them too long), routine to pack his school bag the night before and maybe a list to follow so he remembers what to pack, a calendar that you/he to add his PE days to and then get him into the routine of checking the calendar every morning.

If he picks up some of these routines it will reduce pressure on you both.

He’s very intelligent (full scholarship to phenomenal school) but.... he’s not genius or anything and work is required. Otherwise results are negatively impacted, as has happened when I didn’t organise and cajole and threaten a few months back.
Stakes are high as need good results to get bursary to secondary. The Alternative is a mediocre academy. Whereas bursary option is to a world renowned school that really would be an incredible opportunity.

If your son can't cope in the world-renowned school without constant micro-management then it isn't the right school for him, I'm afraid.

I come from a culture of overindulgent tiger mums with great relationships with their kids and will say that while they are kids only focus on big discipline for education / morally wrong things. If he loses things then don’t make a big deal out of the loss - it just comes out of pocket money. He will learn to be careful eventually when he gets no pocket money one week.

As for chores he does need to do them but stop micromanaging them and make him do things the whole family relies on. Things like preparing a meal a few times a week even if it’s just a sandwich, or nipping to the shops, hovering etc then praise him for it. He is only 11 so a few months of them should make him willing to do more.

Always favour the relationship.

He needs to learn consequence. He doesn't do homework equals detention.
You are not helping him become independent by organising and doing everything for him.
He will do better being a lad who can sort his own stuff / life out and have some decent exams.