To consciously take a back seat to parenting knowing that it will likely impact my son’s future

[Atadaddicted]

So - I’ll keep it brief.
My 11 year old son and I have a fraught relationship.
He is a very complex and tricky character. He is kind and empathetic but very very hard work and also been. Required intense parenting.
He is also very intelligent.

But to get him to do anything - be on time / not lose something / study - is forcing our relationship in to The gutter.

I am a bit micro management mother / “tiger mom”. I see that but not excessively. Although definitely on the higher end of having high expectations and pushing.

And I’m wondering whether anyone has been similar but decided to actively take a step back, knowing that it will likely lead to more punishment at school, late for things and ultimately not achieving as highly in exams as potential BUT a happier and more relaxed mother and son relationship?

[Thisisworsethananticpated]

Yanbu
Single mum and similar son

I decided rightly or wrongly that his
Emotional health is my priority

So I am letting him bin home school to have a bike ride with his sibling and friend

His dad was an abusive twat sadly

I have faith we will get there eventually ❤️

[Crosswithlifeatm]

So you carry on,he gets into the good school .What happens when he goes to uni, you're not there and he hasn't learnt how to motivate himself.How hard will it be for him to fail then.
If you back off now even if he goes to the academy he will find his own level and not be comparing himself to other who find learning easier to his detriment.
You tell him of his choices that he works hard and does his best that is all you expect from him.At 11 he has time.

[minipie]

It sounds like there is a crunch point coming up in terms of what level of school he gets into?

If that’s true then I don’t think now is the right time to step back and teach him to “sink or swim” by himself. I agree that will be needed some day, and before he gets to mid/late teens, but a crucial exam point is not the time to start teaching that lesson.

So in your shoes, I would keep pushing him on the academic stuff for now - perhaps easing off on non academic stuff to reduce numbers of conflicts - and once he is hopefully into the good school, then you start to back off and let him learn to motivate himself, organise himself but still with your help to learn these skills. This also fits naturally with starting a new more senior school.

[Vodkacranberryplease]

@Atadaddicted thanks I'm glad it helped. In terms of a diagnosis it will probably take ages and currently as far as I know medication is the front line. It will help him enormously but it will make almost no difference to his remembering things most of the time. It will just slow his brain down long enough to think about what he needs to take to school etc.

It's not necessarily a disability, in fact the creativity and problem solving that comes with it can be a fantastic asset. A general lack of fear can be pretty useful too.

If he's bright and popular there's no need to make a big fuss or move schools unless he wants to. Lots of sport will help him and probably a boys school where there's less expectation of kids sitting playing quietly.

But the big killer is what one doctor called rejection sensitivity dysphoria. The adhd guy that talks about this knows his stuff - but I don't even think it's in the DSM. There are fuck all people that know anything more about this than what they have read in the papers.

The worst thing you can do is make him feel ashamed. Or tell him he is being lazy. Or he should have done x this way. Leave him to make his own mistakes but set up good systems/routines to support him and make him feel accepted and loved.

Expect lost things, last minute homework (& everything else) and for things to slip through the net if there's too much for him to remember. Expect conflict if you start it by having a go at him (even if it is justified!)

Equally he will be fun, loving loyal and never dull if he feels accepted. You cant have it all 😁

I think a diagnosis and treatment is worth it too for him, and you. Knowing you're not 'lazy, crazy or stupid' as one book put it is such a relief. And you know not to take it personally and how to deal with it. Plus meds (ignore the press) do work.

[GrandmaMazur]

The Scattered Minds book also describes how meds can be very useful but they don't work for everyone with ADHD. And some people don't like taking them. The author believes that it should be a personal choice whether to take them or not, even for children.

[justforthecake]

Good parenting is helping children to learn for themselves, and standing back, but try and choose the things that will have long term negative impact on him

This

Also there are so many children who's parents hot house and micromanage them into them best' school who just cannot sustain that level to thrive.

It's good you have recognised that your relationship is suffering and want that to change.

Sometimes micromanagement is a vicious circle, they don't organise themselves because they have never had to, you keep managing them because you haven't taught them how to manage themselves.

I would start small.
One task to remember each day, talk about both your expectations and how it can be achieved, alarm set on a phone as a reminder or a postit note left somewhere. Then start building that up.

[Vodkacranberryplease]

One thing to add. He will do things if he knows why he needs to. 'Just because' won't cut it. Give him enough information and it will help him to remember and prioritise. It needs to be part of a bigger picture (not why in terms of what's in it for me but why in terms of how does this fit in).

@GrandmaMazur that could well be true, that's why people including kids have to try them out and decide for themselves. Not listen to the scare stories/emotional crap online. No medication works 100% of the time. But currently there aren't viable alternatives.

[GrandmaMazur]

@Vodkacranberryplease - yes I agree. We haven't tried medication (yet) but wouldn't be adverse to if we think it could help.

I believe there are different types of medication and people react very differently to them and to different dosages so it's important to try for yourself - hopefully in the care of a good psychiatrist who is able to adjust the dose carefully.

[crimsonlake]

Been through this, but a much older son doing his A levels.
On and on at him needing to study, caused lots of blowup's. In the end I stepped back as I could see it was ruining our relationship.As they say
' you can take a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink. '
He did well in the end and got a 1st in his degree :)

[ThroughThoroughThoughTough]

I’ve just gone through the transition to a fast-paced secondary school with dd1. I would agree this is NOT the time to back off, but instead to think about how you do things a bit differently in the future. I’ve done a lot more scaffolding of her this year than I did the last year in primary, because the expectations are much higher, everything is more complex (different rooms, different teachers, the commute, having homework).

But what I have found works is a coaching technique - so more ‘what do you think will help you remember to take your homework in on the right day?’ and less ‘ you need a homework folder for each day, here’s some I’ve bought’. I’ve also let her forget things etc, and then supported her (by answering panicked text messages) to work out how to deal with that at school. And that’s taught her resilience, and that it’s much better to apologise in advance by email to the PE teacher if she’s forgotten her swimming kit rather than turn up to the lesson without it, and that school swimsuits are gross!

I’m already much less involved in homework (no longer checking on the app what she has due). Next year, I won’t be answering (most) text messages straight away, I’ll give her half an hour to see if she can sort it out by herself. My aim is to gradually give her more space to manage things by herself, so she comes out at 18 able to manage her own workload, friendships and life without my help with knowing I’m always there if there’s a true crisis or she needs a sounding board or some life experience to borrow.

[flamingochill]

Is he y7 or y6?

I advise you take a back seat. Suggest something like "set a phone alarm 5 minutes before you leave on PE days" and let him take your advice or leave it. When it goes wrong he might take your advice or come up with another solution that works for him. It's best to do this now when mistakes are more acceptable than wait until GCSE/uni age and mistakes having big consequences.

This is something I found hard and I had to bite my lip but my kids are good at it now.

[Vodkacranberryplease]

@GrandmaMazur yes I agree. We haven't tried medication (yet) but wouldn't be adverse to if we think it could help.

It will help. Not trying it is unfair on the person who has it - their life could change. And I'm not sure why you mentioned the care of a good psychiatrist- this is a controlled substance, there is no DIY option. This is ADHD specialist only stuff not the GP. Surely you know that? If you are looking after/responsible for someone with ADHD surely you have seen specialists? You're not just relying on reading a book?

[Vodkacranberryplease]

Oh good lord ive just looked up scattered minds. It's Gabor Mate. No, no, no.
@Atadaddicted please do not read or rely on this book. This man is appalling, and barely believes in it. I even wrote to him once I was so pissed off with his idiotic comments - and I never do that.

Real resources are Dr Daniel Amen, Dr Edward Hallowell, snd Russell Barkley.
www.amazon.co.uk/Taking-Charge-ADHD-Third-Authoritative/dp/1462507891/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=ADHD&qid=1593466014&sr=8-5&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21
And Dr William Dodson who first talked about rejection sensItive dysphoria.

There are some good online ADHD resources too - and if you look at them you'll see there are no effective non medication treatments apart from perhaps neurofeedback (expensive! And in clinic).

[Norabird]

I've just skimmed the thread but I see ADHD has been suggested. He also sounds quite like my son who I think may have PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance) which is a form of ASD. Basically he's driven by anxiety and he will do anything to avoid the things that make him anxious. So if we put pressure on him to work to a goal it puts him off entirely. For both our sanity I've had to really lower my expectations of him. Like your DS he's a very bright boy but I doubt very much that we will see his potential achieved because he just won't handle the pressure of exams well.

A common theme with ASD/ADHD/Dyslexia etc. is trouble with "executive functioning" - Google it, it will make a lot of sense. That's what makes them struggle with organisational skills etc. My eldest (diagnosed ASD) is dreadful for it.

[Krook]

Yes, I have done just that (also ASD or ADD suspected)

If he is that intelligent I think you could have a conversation about this with him. Explain that you are fed up nagging but that you don't want him to suffer for not being nagged. Checklists on walls, Alexa reminders are all useful here. Say that you'll do your best to help him remember stuff but you won't nag, shout, cajole, coax. Any hint of a raised voice with my DS and things escalate like you wouldn't believe.
I found that when I actively started including him in my decisions and treating him in a more 'adult' fashion our relationship improved no end.

[wejammin]

My 8 year old DS is incredibly bright and also diagnosed with PDA as mentioned by @Norabird - I can see huge issues in future around homework and organisational demands (homeschool has been a significant challenge).
Two things that are working well at the moment are 'tick lists' for working through daily school work (and I've kept the compulsory stuff basic, just English and maths on an app he will engage with), and reminders on Alexa. He will obey Alexa far more readily that he will me, and when he was in school it was great for things like pe kit and library books. I can add stuff, so can DH and DS, and the notification comes up on my phone so it also covertly reminds me, which allows me to 'scaffold' subtle checks and reminders as well.
You sound like a lovely mum, and these bright kids of ours can be a challenge. Not to add to your list, but I would highly recommend the podcast and book 'Tilt parenting', and look up the term '2E' (twice exceptional) for some ideas on executive functioning support.

[Atadaddicted]

I am almost certain adhd

So my question is


If we get a diagnosis - what then?
How do I get a diagnosis, especially at this time?
This is all new to me and I feel overwhelmed.

Thank you for your support

[GrandmaMazur]

@Vodkacranberryplease I've just seen your criticism of Scattered Minds. Can you tell me what's wrong with it? I've only come to all this recently and this book was recommended to me recently by a child psychiatrist and it seemed to make sense to me.

I will read the other authors you've recommended to Atadaddicted to get more information.

My DS doesn't (yet) have a diagnosis of ADHD but it does seem to fit, though possibly with some overlap of something else.

My understanding is that to get a diagnosis of ADHD you need to fill in three questionnaires (one from a parent, one from a child and one from a teacher) - is that right? DS and I have both done them but our results don't agree which makes things a bit complicated!

We will also have a problem with getting a teacher to fill in a questionnaire as DS is very bright but also very quiet at school so goes under the radar - he lets it all out when he gets home. He is also in his first year at secondary school and with lockdown he hasn't been there that long so there aren't any teachers who would know him well enough. But even when he was at primary school none of his teachers had ever noticed anything and seemed surprised when I explained the things he found difficult.

Sorry Atadaddicted - didn't mean to derail your thread! Hope you get the support you need.

[Smallsteps88]

How do I get a diagnosis, especially at this time?
This is all new to me and I feel overwhelmed.

Call your GP and ask for a referral to ADHD services. In my area it takes ages so the sooner you get the ball rolling the better.

[Casscass1986]

@atadaddicted My son is 20 had has just recently and finally ( not for the want of trying when he was younger) been diagnosed with ADD (I). He, like your son is very intelligent, got through school and to university to study engineering. However, life was hard for him, it didn't matter how hard he tried, staying focused was an issue, being organised was difficult, remembering to do things , the list goes on. During his second year at university he hit a brick wall and had to take a medical leave on absence.

We had to have the diagnosis done privately and he was prescribed elvanse. This has been life changing, he described it as all the noise and static being turned down in his head and which allows him to think and focus on the things he chooses to. He's back at university and got fantastic results in his exams. I wish we had received the diagnosis earlier, as his life would have been so much easier. If you are able to I would certainly suggest pursuing diagnosis now for your son.

[Perfectstorm12]

I wouldn't rule out reading Gabor Mate, he will be challenging for any parent to read but he is trying to talk about various forms of childhood trauma. Non of us are immune from this.

[AllWashedOut]

I love Gabor Mate. I haven't read Scattered Minds but I have read his parenting one (cowritten). It is hard for a parent to digest. BUT the rewards are great. The message is RELATIONSHIP - always relationship - first. Look at lockdown: teenagers and parents having time in each others company. How weird in our society. We're constantly told this is bad for their mental health, when maybe the opposite is true. Peer culture can be hugely destructive.

[Atadaddicted]

This is invaluable.
I am reading reading reading about it - my son is a walking talking inattentive Case of adhd!

So if we get a diagnosis - then what? What happens? What’s the treatment? What happens with school? Exams ie GCSEs etc, support?

This is going to be a real fight to get my ex husband on board so i need to understand I’d actually worth it for my son.

Thank you so much all

[Atadaddicted]

I bought scattered minds last night actually

[Atadaddicted]

My priority atm has to be salvaging our relationship