To consciously take a back seat to parenting knowing that it will likely impact my son’s future

[Atadaddicted]

So - I’ll keep it brief.
My 11 year old son and I have a fraught relationship.
He is a very complex and tricky character. He is kind and empathetic but very very hard work and also been. Required intense parenting.
He is also very intelligent.

But to get him to do anything - be on time / not lose something / study - is forcing our relationship in to The gutter.

I am a bit micro management mother / “tiger mom”. I see that but not excessively. Although definitely on the higher end of having high expectations and pushing.

And I’m wondering whether anyone has been similar but decided to actively take a step back, knowing that it will likely lead to more punishment at school, late for things and ultimately not achieving as highly in exams as potential BUT a happier and more relaxed mother and son relationship?

[Vodkacranberryplease]

I remember this mantra my little niece had In preschool - 'its tidy up time'. A version of that, a saying where he spends half an hour a day at the end of the day putting everything back/in it's right place will save a lot of heartache!

If he's got adhd he will strew stuff around everywhere and literally not remember even doing it!

You may not get him to put things in specific spot (you can do it with one of two super important things) but you can get him into the daily habit of going around picking up/moving things/putting stuff away all in one go.

Perhaps a box he can carry around, putting things in and then putting them away?

[LadyOfTheImprovisedBath]

Acadmic wall planner,
weekly planner and look at homework planners.

My the older two have desks and these are above the desk - shelves for text books, pots for pens.

Work with him to find places for stuff - try a place for everything everything in it's place - box for shoes, coats - label everything so he can look for them if lost at school. Bag for PE kits so all kept together.

Big school bag - mine find clip boards each for letters and timetables useful.

School letters go on wall in school letter place and events get added to family calendar as well. There was for years a check list by the door as well - but none of them need that anymore.

If he gets a pass next year for access of meals at secondary - or needs keys get a lanyard with extendable key fob so it doens't have to leave his neck unnecessarily or think about getting somewhere secure for a house key so it doens't get taken in with him.

It does depend on what's being lost - but getting him to check frequently when leaving classroom/house he has everything is a very useful skill meant I wasn't one leaving things when I had kids despite my disorgnaisation it was DH as I'd do quick check.

extreme hatred of sun cream being applied

Surely he shoud be doing this himself?

try - sprays /different types.
Otherwise long sleeves hats and sun clothes work - as DS had skin problems with creams when younger.

[Atadaddicted]

I would like to buy some resources to help with the disorganisation, the losing things (Everything) and his extreme hatred of sun cream being applied.

Any pointers as to what I can buy?

[Shrewsdoodle]

Regardless of ADHD or not, planners and prioritised lists are very useful. This might be a good start, help him organise himself with time allowances for tasks then ease off as he gets in the habit of planning. He'll need your help to keep on top of the planning, particularly if he does have ADHD (my to do lists/ schedules get buried after a day without medication).

Hopefully with the right tools, whatever works for him, he'll learn to cope. I agree with @TiddleTaddleTat that he will struggle if he's stressed, so perhaps you can help him prioritise and set realistic goals to start so he's not overwhelmed and let him take control gradually.

[TiddleTaddleTat]

@paintedmaypole


*Regarding ADHD, while it is a possibility have you never as an adult had the experience of forgetting things when stressed and over loaded.? You both sound stressed. I think you really need to ask yourself some quite deep questions about what you want for him and why.
*
This is the most sensible advice have skimmed the thread. Before jumping to the conclusion that there is something wrong with him, that he has some sort of disorder etc. I would explore other options first. Certainly something needs to change in your approach - together, and as a dynamic .

[Vodkacranberryplease]

Yes adhd or not you definitely don't want to one of these helicopter mummies making everything ok for their little darling! That's just another way to make a kid feel useless. Positive reinforcement will set up those brain pathways and make him highly motivated. It won't be perfect (or even close) but my god it's better than the alternative.

@AllWashedOut I stand (almost) corrected! He seems to have changed his stance and he said he has medicated. That it's not the whole answer (true). And some other standard stuff. But he lost me at the it's not genetic statement. A few years ago he wrote a whole blog post essentially saying it didn't exist. He's a voice to add but not a source in and of itself. Imho.

[Longdistance]

I work in s as prep school and have pupils come to my office as they have forgotten a book, a piece of kit, or something important for their day. They come to ting home, so mum or dad or nanny or the next door neighbours cat can come bring in their missing item.
I’m a great believer in teaching them to put up with forgetting and to become independent in thought. Say ‘it’s Monday, what do I need today? What lessons do I have? What sports kit do I need?’
It’s good for them to learn that responsibility.
Pick your battles, just leave him to sort himself out. If he gets in trouble for it, it’s his causing nothing yours.
Urgh! I once got a phone call from an ex parent of the school, the guy was 19 and mummy was calling for him ffs!

[Nearlyalmost50]

A couple of things- has he got into the super duper school yet? If not, then you need to look at whether it caters well for those with additional needs as well as very bright, not all schools are up for that.

Second- I would not back off and just let them fail repeatedly in Year 7 if transitioning to secondary. That's a hard year, for friends, for new amounts of homework, both my children have needed some support in organizing themselves more and traveling (if school a way away) made them very tired and they found it hard. By Year 8 they were able to run their own timetables, homework and lives.

[AllWashedOut]

Actually Gabor Mate himself has ADHD and medicates himself. He does not suggest NOT medicating; he advocates medication in fact when it helps. He's not a wacko doctor.

[Vodkacranberryplease]

I just put adhd books for parents into amazon and got a few that seemed specifically targeted at boys and at certain subsets (there are different types). I would have a look as one or two will really grab you as they have different kinds of objectives. One talks about social skills, others about bullying and this one might be ok
www.amazon.co.uk/ADHD-Potential-Self-Regulated-Confident-Publishing/dp/1093570210/ref=mp_s_a_1_24_sspa?dchild=1&psc=1&keywords=adhd%20books%20for%20parents&sprefix=adhd%20&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExTTYwUEpXTDhNUEtSJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTI0MjQ0MU1QTk9XN0Y0U0U4VyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzI3MjIxMUdIMjU4QVc5WU9NNiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX3Bob25lX3NlYXJjaF9tdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl&qid=1593545653&sr=8-24-spons&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

BUT what I will say is don't bother telling anyone except perhaps a really good teacher and his doctor. Because everyone had an opinion and they know fuck all. And it's just so boring trying to talk to them.

Instead talk in symptoms. Eg 'he definitely needs to keep to his systems to not lose things' or 'he's much better when he's had a chance to run around so how can we build that into the school day' etc.

People will understand that. Though they will all say 'oh I lose things too! 🙄 Yeah, no you don't. Not like this. Just don't bother having the conversations.

But do talk to him. He's smart and he knows he's different. And it can bring significant benefits (in fact there's a book that talks about that).

[Vodkacranberryplease]

Now this one I do recommend., mentioned it earlier I think!
www.amazon.co.uk/Taking-Charge-ADHD-Third-Authoritative/dp/1462507891/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=adhd%20books%20for%20parents&sprefix=adhd%20&qid=1593545584&sr=8-5&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[Vodkacranberryplease]

So don't cancel your order!!!

[Vodkacranberryplease]

No that ones well known. Though there are better. It's Gabor Mate scattered minds and there is another scattered minds book by a different author which is confusing!

[Atadaddicted]

@Vodkacranberryplease

It is this one you are talking about as being appalling?

[Atadaddicted]

Oh good grief
I’m going to cancel my order @vodkacranberry
But could you perhaps recommend a very straight forward entry level book on the subject and tactics as I really am new to this and don’t want to feel bamboozled. After some short term help before hopefully securing a proper support and guidance

Thanks all

[Vodkacranberryplease]

The book is highly reviewed because he's telling people exactly what they want to hear. Confirmation bias + not wanting to see the truth + a belief in 'big pharma is bad' + desperately wanting hope = 'ooo its such a good book'

Of course there are the false positives of children who simply have an awful diet, not enough sleep or exercise, and a not great home environment. Obviously that needs to be fixed first for kids who do or don't have it.

There's also evidence that the gut biome is contributing to the rise in this and other conditions. However It existed before we started eating total shit (after antibiotics probably) AND fixing the gut won't cure it.

If there's a genuine nutritional deficiency then fixing that might well look like a cure.

But that's why I asked about parents. Because it IS genetic and then it's not about the gut and food etc. Even though symptoms could be worse if these things aren't right. Or they could not.

But any adhd doctor will tell you to eat right, get enough exercise (only works for the day), and get enough sleep (ditto). They might talk about CBT tailored to it. But they will go for meds because meds work. But no one wants to believe that.

[Vodkacranberryplease]

Here's what he says on the front page of his blog about ADHD

"Rather than an inherited disease, Attention Deficit Disorder is a reversible impairment and a developmental delay, with origins in infancy. It is rooted in multigenerational family stress and in disturbed social conditions in a stressed society. In Scattered Minds, Dr. Maté offers a completely new perspective on this disorder, providing hope for adults with ADD, and parents seeking to support their children."

Absolute tosh but for the gullible manna from heaven. He's the anti vaxxer of adhd. And it pisses me off so much because people actually believe it and then spend years trying his batshit theories and getting nowhere.

[Vodkacranberryplease]

Twat I mean! I've seen him write some utterly fucking ignorant shit on his blog - there's a wealth of other stuff out there to choose from.

PM me if you want

[Vodkacranberryplease]

Because the guy who wrote it is a grade a test

[Atadaddicted]

@Vodkacranberryplease

I wish you were local so I could pick your brains!

Your rejection of a scattered book- why? It is very highly reviewed

[Atadaddicted]

@LunaNorth

How old is your son now? Why would you have sought help?

[Norabird]

@Atadaddicted

My priority atm has to be salvaging our relationship

I think it will help if you understand that he's not being deliberately difficult. The shift in mindset makes a big difference.

If it is ADHD then medication is a known, very effective, treatment that would be well worth considering. Don't hold your breath for masses of support. Knowing what it is means you can do your own research though and work out what is best for him.

[Atadaddicted]

My priority atm has to be salvaging our relationship

[Atadaddicted]

I bought scattered minds last night actually

[Atadaddicted]

This is invaluable.
I am reading reading reading about it - my son is a walking talking inattentive Case of adhd!

So if we get a diagnosis - then what? What happens? What’s the treatment? What happens with school? Exams ie GCSEs etc, support?

This is going to be a real fight to get my ex husband on board so i need to understand I’d actually worth it for my son.

Thank you so much all