It’s an inheritance one!

[Sadinside]

Sadly FIL died last year after a truly harrowing illness. He left DH and SIL each 40K. MIL has never really been involved with money, having always kept that as FIL’s domaine - bit old fashioned. The will was old - 20 years old. DH suggested MIL quickly got bank statements together to tot up value of savings and assets - as he was executor. The initial tot up came back as 120K. This would mean once DH and SIL were paid out - she’d have the house (worth about 300K plus 40K savings) - she’s 72 and in good health. DH asked me what I thought, and my immediate feeling was that both siblings should really hand back the will to MIL in order to give her savings and home options (she was talking about moving into a modern house). Papers were signed handing back the money to MIL. Everyone happy. Fast forward about a month, the solicitor is undertaking bank searches and unearths 200K that MIL had no idea about. Suddenly she’s a wealthy widow. No parent / child discussion about giving back the inheritance to anyone. Covid hits, DH has pay slashed, we can’t afford our mortgage and are selling up to move to a much smaller house. The inheritance would have kept our house. MIL In the meantime declares she’s staying put in the old big house. I’ve spoken to no one about this because I feel a bit ashamed of feeling pissed off at an elderly grieving lady. Ive not told DH that I feel his mum has acted a bit sneakily ...but that actually is how I feel. AIBU to feel kind of diddled? The money’s not mine, I’ve never banked on anything but I know in same position I wouldn’t do that do my own kids! Do I need to mentally let this go? We move in August and I just find myself avoiding MIL on phone, I can’t feel the same way about her having previously got on pretty well for years.

I absolutely don't agree that you can't leave your children some money. It's half your money and half the spouses in my view on top of the house which all goes to the spouse.

The surviving spouse may remarry and leave all the money, including the children's share, to them who in turn leaves it to their biological children. This is really not rare and has happened to friends of mine. Or some people end up falling out with their kids and leaving it all to a cats charity. Which is why it makes sense to make a small provision for your children so at least they get something.

As for care homes, the mother has £320k, not £200k as people keep saying. Plus she has a pension. Plus she has the value of the property, so another £300k. If you took out the £80k that's £540k towards a care home. As she will still get the pension, even if in the care home, that's still a lot of money and many years care home fees.

I feel for you OP. It must be awful to lose your home having put so much into it. It sounds like your DH will put his mother's feelings first though, if he refuses to even mention it to her. I think I would have to say to him though that I was upset he hadn't even mentioned your financial position to his mother, if only to get the resentment off my chest as it doesn't help anyone to carry that. I wouldn't expect my husband to do anything about it, it's his decision after all, but he should listen to your feelings.

I get the feeling the solicitor probably didn’t know and the brother and sister just did a bank transfer or something

Utterly batshit

Why wasn’t that 80k ring fenced. A loan so that it’s not eaten up with care home fees or taxed twice!! Bizarre behaviour.

I can tell you fact, you’re next problem will be your Sil getting the house because she’ll live there now forever.

Jingle
You asked if it was before probate: it obviously was because it was before the solicitor had not yet done the proper searches.

Agreed, we don’t know ‘what papers’, but they did not ‘alter the will’. They either declined to accept the money, which is legal, or they gave it back, ditto.

If you reply please do not @ me. I am on the thread and don’t need you in my inbox.

You sound very worked up.

Ignoring any will provisions and presuming no finanicial recklessness a la your SIL...
My mother would be DEVASTATED if I moved my family out of a beloved home for financially based reasons and she had cash to help. She would also be angry and hurt I hadn't come to her or didn't feel I could talk to her.

Equally if my child/children were in that situation I would 100% want to help.and probably feel the same.

More than that by not telling your MIL you take the opportunity/option for her to help away.

You sound like a normal family with normal good caring relationships. Unless actually you do want to move you should talk to her and ask for the money either as inheritance or an extended loan.
You haven't exchanged there is still time.

TBH OP, you were the instigator of the situation you are in because of cancelling the Will stipulations at the start. £40k with a mortgage free property was adequate for your MIL, and FILs wishes should have been followed. Unfortunately you are now a victim of that decision, and really nothing you can do about that.

If your MIL returns the money then she will need to live another 7 years at least, otherwise in the event incapacity you could find yourselves having to return the money again to pay for care home fees, the inheritance aspect is covered by the new rules, when the estate goes to children or grandchildren, where almost £1m is free of tax.

acutally there is potentially quite alot she can do about.

Talk to a solciitor - the original 'handing back' might not even be valid.

Talk to MIL and see if they can arrange a loan.

I still want to know how the money was handed back, because if it was realtively informal (no deed of variation) then it may not be a legitimate handing back anyway.

It's a tricky one. Family dynamics are all in play. I'd be te,pted to see if I could have a loan and pay it back over time.

Of course you are being unreasonable.
It isn’t yours or your husbands money.

Comeby Can assure you I am not remotely worked up but I don't like anyone telling me to read a post when I had done so.

You had misread it I'm afraid.

As for tagging you- sorry but it's a normal way of attracting a poster's attention to the thread. How do I or anyone know if you are reading any more? Just delete the email- hardly a big deal!

I would feel the same way, OP. And I would also be taking note that my SIL has also experienced financial difficulties since and moved back into the family home with her ... prepare yourself ... your DH may end up with nothing down the line as well.

Your DH's father had his reasons for leaving that cash to your DH and his sister. He wanted you to have it and would have had ample time to change it over the years. I'm astonished that you persuaded them to give up the cash based on a few quick calculations. I'd be surprised if they don't resent you. I'm also surprised that once your mil realised she had more that she didn't offer you anything! Maybe she got legal advice and hasn't let on? She may well marry again and her husband would get the lot. Had none of you thought of that? Your sil would still have a claim (legal challenge) as she is financially dependent and living there.

What's done is done. I hope your move goes well and your finances improve soon.

Comeby - sorry but they did alter the will because the OP said 'papers were signed'.

Please don't keep coming back trying to make out I am the one who is misreading.

On the tag front you sort out settings so that the e-mail does not pop up in your inbox at all..

I do want to know 'what papers' because i cannot imagine a solicitor would prepare a deed of variation until the full textent of the estate was known. As the OPs DH was the executor I am wondering if it was something less formal.

I think even if I knew about the £200K I would have given the money back to the MIL. She is not that old at all and I think she should have her husbands money. She isn't a 'wealthy' widow even with £320k. I would have seen it as her money all along. I don't see any moral dilemma here or anything to feel aggrieved at.

The OPs husband has done the right thing.

There is no reason the OPs husband can't ask for a little bit of help from his mother but if he does he shouldn't try and make her feel guilty about the £40k. The woman has recently been widowed. Trying to guilt trip her would be extremely nasty.

OP, you are doing the right thing by keeping your feelings to yourself. I understand it's frustrating but it's not your MILs or your husbands fault your family are struggling financially.

Also, you mention that you and your husband were very supportive of your MIL when she was recently widowed. I don't know why you mentioned it? It doesn't make you more or less deserving of her money.

I'm surprised so many posters think you should have kept the £40k. - I don't believe a single one of them would be happy if their husbands/partners left such a substation amount of money to their kids.

£320k is NOT a huge amount to live of if you are only in your early 70's

You simply need to talk to her op and explain the situation
As she will know you’re being frosty towards her better to talk

In hindsight not a great move, from an inheritance tax perspective this is really bad financial planning as the whole estate is now being to be values for tax on MIL death at 40% for anything over the allowed threshold

If the MIL died tomorrow then I think inheritance tax would amount to about £50k. However, as she is only in her early 70's I don't think that is anything that the OP needs to worry about.

The solicitor was very wrong to agree to an alteration to the will (and it's a legal doc) just because the family decided to do otherwise WHEN PROBATE WAS NOT COMPLETED.

THIS ^

Probate can turn up all sorts of stuff!

And executors are always advised NEVER to start paying out bequests before it is fully completed, because often estates contain more or less than is expected, and the executor is responsible for any shortfall to anyone - including the inland Revenue.

I think it was the right and honourable thing to do to let their mum keep the money. £40k is not much for a 63 yr old to have in savings - if she had future care needs that wouldn't go very far. She could live for another 30 years!

But now your DH could go and ask her for an advance on his inheritance or return of it. If he was prepared to.

This is why I do not believe the papers were done by the solicitor. It states clearly in the OP, papers signed. and then about a month later the solicitor is undertaking bank searches. That is the very beginning of these things.

So what papers? I am really curious about this (obsessive alert). Because I think the 'handing over' may well not be formal.

[quote JinglingHellsBells]@ConstantlySeekingHappiness Sadly there are some basic misunderstandings here.

A person can have their own bank accounts and investments and leave whatever they want to anyone, regardless of whether they are married.

Usually, a spouse would leave everything to the remaining spouse , and then the children would inherit when they died, but legally they can leave their assets to the local dogs home if they choose.

Lots of people assume money is a joint asset in a marriage but it's not if you have your own investments- you can do what you want with it in your will. A spouse can contest that but it's a process to go through.[/quote]
Thank you for that. I am a solicitor and I understand perfectly.

Are you an expert in this area?

I’m also a human being and a daughter... and I could never take £40k from a will that would potentially leave my mother financially vulnerable. It appears that the Will was drafted 20 years ago without any real thought of the implications on his spouse. Or how she would be financially cared for after his death.

I appreciate others certainly would take the money happily and would feel entitled to it.

I couldn’t.

And when it comes down to it.... OP has stuck her nose in and came up with this ‘solution’ - which also affected SIL - and now has the hump it has gone badly for them because they weren’t financially secure enough to be able to maintain their home short term due to a loss of income.

The OP losing her home in this way should be a warning sign that MiL needs to protect herself financially or risk losing her own home. Which is what would have happened if the siblings had kept the money.

This isnt an inhertitance one really - its that something terrible has happened and changed your circumstances (and you have said that the 40k would only paper over the cracks not solve the problem) and it is easy to blame your MIL when:

1. Its clear that this move was in effect to save your inheritance in the longer term. SIL would have spent the money and MIL would have had to move to a smaller house. The fact that she is now not spending money to me shows that

2. She doesnt know about it at all

You are I think misplacing your anger because it is easy to blame her but she sounds like a woman who followed firstly her husband and now her son

I can’t feel the same way about her having previously got on pretty well for years

I think that's very unkind. In fact I think it's cruel. The woman has just been widowed!! If you are going to punish her by being frosty or by avoiding her then you should at least admit what and why you are doing it.

It's incredible how dismissive of FIL's last will and testament a lot of posters are. Those are his kids and it might have taken him 20 years to save that 80K so he could give them an inheritance. Even if it didn't that's what he wanted his kids to have full stop. Maybe it is exactly because his wife wasn't good with finances that he did that so they could have something. Also, he might have scrimped and saved and denied himself some things to make this happen. In addition, he might have known his kids would never let their mum go without and been confident they would do the right thing if it came to it which they did. Possibly selling the family home might have been something he thought would help towards her retirement if needed. Fact is we don't know his reasons and his thinking but it was a wonderful gesture of love so stop making out he did the most heinous thing by leaving some money to his own kids.
However it's not MIL's fault if she doesn't know about your current financial hardship so reserve judgment until she is aware and doesn't step up to helping with the situation.

I can't get past the fact that you're resentful and angry with your MIL when it was your decision to hand her back the inheritance, and you haven't even told her about your own financial difficulties. I mean, the poor woman - you're being really unfair to her.