To think it’s dumb that international holidays are being encouraged in the middle of a pandemic

[Redolent]

AIBU to think is probably the part of the coronavirus pandemic that will lead to WTF reactions in future history books? A world clinging desperately to its globalized ways and unwilling to countenance altering them even in the midst of a crisis like this.

European countries have just gone through months of brutal economic and social lockdowns, with the goal of suppressing the virus. They’ve just experienced, at a huge cost, what it’s like to have the virus slowly and imperceptibly land within their borders via air travel.

And yet, just as the virus starts circulating at low levels, they all decide to open up their borders to each other again, in these supposedly safe ‘air corridors’. Enroute to their destinations, their citizens flock to public transport, then to busy airports and planes, where they sit for hours in the midst of other passengers, then on to their destinations, where they mix with other citizens coming in from all over the world too, in social and alcohol-fuelled conditions. In the meantime, governments - like the UK - have vowed that any outbreaks in other countries will mean that returning tourists may have to suddenly quarantine for two weeks upon their return home. It’s a panicked and volatile strategy, subject to a monitoring of the spread of the virus in multiple other countries. Of course it’s bound to go wrong.

TLDR: close the borders. Internationalism can wait.

I’m in two minds about this. The fact is that CoVid is everywhere so assuming that people want a break away from him it doesn’t make a lot of difference whether they take that break in Spain or France or the U.K., they stand as much chance of picking up the virus in one place as another. If it’s true that hot weather lessens then it’s actually more sensible to holiday somewhere warm.

OTOH I definitely wouldn’t want to travel by plane ATM. They are hermetically sealed petri dishes of bacteria at the best of times. Normally that doesn’t bother me. I have a robust constitution and think exposure to germs only strengthens it but with CoVid around I am more cautious than normal. And if I do catch it at some point in the future I would want to be at home with my comforts around me and medical staff who speak the same language as me.

What a sneery post.

Have your staycation, but don't pretend this is to reduce your risk. Let your kids stay here where the R rate is exponentially higher. Eat indoors in pubs and restaurants where transmission will be higher. Get trains where air is untreated, unlike on an airplane where all air is filtered and renewed every 2 minutes.

A holiday in a warmer climate will mean much of the day is spent outside, in a country with less circulating covid. France, Italy, Spain and Greece are more at risk from us.

In February travel was unsafe. The horse has bolted.

The travel industry is in dire straits. Thousands of jobs could be lost and I already know of someone who has taken their own life because of the stress. I work in the industry. People are being naive to think you can just stay at home this year and defer your holiday to next year. There won't be a next year as we know it unless things change soon - companies and airlines will go under and travel will become the privilege of the rich. We need to get things moving.

Of course other countries want to protect against COVID but they are taking action to rebuild their economies.

I'm travelling to Spain in August, assuming that FCO advice changes and it feels safe to do so.

• the hotel I'm going to will only operate at 50% capacity and rooms will not be occupied continuously, there will be a gap between guests
• all meals will be served to guests, no buffets
• they are offering a free repatriation/medical package to guests
• I can cancel with no charge up to 24 hours before we are due to arrive.

I may not go. I'm trying to find work as my job in travel has disappeared - everything I've trained and worked for. I won't go if it doesn't feel safe at the time or if I have found work. But otherwise I will, and I won't feel guilty for doing so.

@Bedroomdilemma

Surely the risk is greater to the other countries than it is to the UK, given England has the highest rates in Europe I believe, at the minute? So I think the countries accepting British tourists are crazy, but I’m not sure the risk to the British tourists themselves is much greater than thronging to a British beach (apart from having to go through an airport).

Don't let the truth get in the way of moral indignation

What part of “the virus isn’t going anywhere we have to live with it”are you all struggling with,? emphasis on ‘live’ I’m sorry but if you class living as being locked up in a house all day every day whilst continuing to have a blinkered view of how the economy works, you crack on

I couldn't believe the news yesterday. The lifting of the 14 day isolation after you get back from your holiday in : Spain, Greece etc.

I was like wtf? Who would even want to sit on an aeroplane with say 90 other people - an enclosed space, the best breeding ground for Covid?

Completely agree. It’s about the economy not health. The tourism industry is on its knees and the government haven’t got anything left to bail out.

I tend towards being a bit more relaxed when it comes to worrying about covid (though we did follow all rules throughout lock down) but i agree with you op.

We had a holiday booked in the south of France which would have meant a long drive down and probably an over night stay on the way. While I'm sure once we got there it would have been bliss to be restricted to the holiday house (what's not to love about just hanging around all day at your own pool?!), the reason i wanted to cancel was the journey there, with 3 small dcs, there's no way we'd have been able to just motor through. We'd be stopping every couple of hours getting snacks, doing wees etc etc, so many opportunities to touch things and catch or pass it on!

They are doing this to save the travel industry which is ironic because if they hadn't been so concerned about the industry in the first place and had shut the borders in February we probably wouldn't be in this position. Visiting other countries by boat/car is probably not a problem but flights will increase the risk.
As for "saving the economy" whose economy are we saving by travelling abroad and spending in other countries rather than our own?

So what’s your ideas for saving the economy? We need money coming in. I bet you’d be the first to complain about austerity

My idea would be to holiday in this country rather than travel abroad and spend money somewhere else.

I was like wtf? Who would even want to sit on an aeroplane with say 90 other people - an enclosed space, the best breeding ground for Covid?*

Air on an airplane is filtered and renewed with outside air every 2-3 mins. The filters are so effective that they can remove particles the size of the covid virus. It's not risk free, but imo it's definitely safer than the underground or a busy train/bus.

A recent 11hr flight with 2 confirmed covid cases had the whole plane quarantined. There were no other cases.

Also - wasn't it great when the CO2 emissions went down during the world's lockdown. But hey, holidays and airline companies are vital to the economy so let's forget about global warming - again.

Yes, airlines are vital to keep up the global warming. We must save them whilst simultaneously spending money in other countries because that will really help the UK economy too. It's not as if travel caused this problem in the first place.

I must admit I am tempted to book a holiday abroad but I dont want to be stuck anywhere that I can't easily get home from IF we or another country has to go back into lockdown.

Complete madness I agree.

Air on an airplane is filtered and renewed with outside air every 2-3 mins. The filters are so effective that they can remove particles the size of the covid virus.

That's what they say but I'm very sceptical as is everyone I know who flies quite frequently. They must not have bothered switching on the filters on the flights I have been on because if someone nearby has a cold then I always get one too.

It's so weird isn't it. Either quarantine everyone or no one but picking a few places we can go is the oddest choice! I, for one will not be going on a bloody plane for quite some time. I have got a tent and a car and I'm not afraid to use it :-)

I feel there are too many people that believe if we all do " as we are told" then the Corona virus will go away . That will never happen , maybe not for many years yet.
The time for total lockdown has passed and transmission is relatively low , we must try to get back to normal.

Everyone can decide for themselves if they want to travel or not .
Not everyone is going on holiday , many people want to visit family in other countries or need to travel for work .

It does feel like deja vu with early months but the difference is we all have it at roughly equal levels how much does that change it?

My initial reaction was that’s crazy but of course people are going under economically, but then I wondered about above,

There’s a common misconception that “recirculated air” in airplanes makes people more likely to get sick. In modern planes, that isn’t true. Nowadays, airplanes have hospital-grade HEPA filtering systems that entirely recirculate the air in the cabin every three minutes. While flying, the air coming out of the air vent is actually a mixture of filtered fresh and recirculated air, where the recirculated stuff increases the air humidity—and your comfort. It may even be healthier than in most office buildings and schools.

I totally agree. The planes alone are complete germ spreaders. They say most people catch their ‘holiday flus’ on the planes don’t they? We have a few medics in our family and they say they won’t be getting on a plane anytime soon, so much so that one is going to drive from the EU to visit.

I haven’t heard a single medic recommend foreign travel.

The air on the plane isn’t as much as an issue as close proximity on board, travel at each end. There’s no doubt travel spread the virus pdq at the beginning.

I don’t think it’s juts the air in the planes. It’s the close proximity/lots of people sharing a bathroom and touching surfaces. Yuck.

Sorry x posted.