It's not the case that most parents of babies/toddlers 'get no sleep for years'

[Echobelly]

I'm aware I was pretty fortunate in getting two kids who were both pretty good sleepers relatively early on - I was preparing for the worst because all the folklore about having a baby is 'Hahaha, you'll never sleep again' but TBH, I think only about 10% of parents I'm friends with seem to have had really persistent non-sleepers (as in still multiple waking often age 3-4+).

Seems to me that most babies actually sleep with no more than one wake by about six months (and one wake's generally pretty copable) and while it may be true you don't get a lie-in at weekend for years, and may get worken early, it's not years of broken sleep as some people seem to give the impression.

Disclaimer: not implying terrible sleepers don't exist, that that's not awful to live with or that it's anyone's fault if babies/toddlers do or don't sleep

But basically AIBU to suggest that the majority of babies and toddlers don't actually deny their parents restful sleep for years on end?

YANBU OP. All but one friend had children who slept through by 6-8 months, myself included.

I have a friend who currently has a 2 year old who wakes multiple times a night and still needs 'settling' to get to sleep. WTF is that all about? Stop pandering, put them in their cot and they'll go to sleep. Yes, they'll cry at first but they're 2 years old! Not a tiny baby 😐

YABU. One of mine was a semi okay sleeper from age one, the other was waking fifteen times a night until she was nearly three. All babies are different and I never cared about what anyone else’s was doing besides mine.

Well I certainly felt very alone and your comments sort of compound that.

Thank god for MN which got me through.

Most people with good sleepers are polite enough to STFU about it. Because those of us who didn't sleep for three years didn't want to hear your smug solutions, "have you tried..." YES I FUCKING HAVE.

Oh and all the CIO/sleep 'training' advocates who 'help' their child to sleep, I don't care what you do to your child. But my child at 9 is an excellent self-settler with a fantastic routine who never has any issues now. So don't give me that bollocks about having to 'teach' them that skill by leaving them to cry.

^^ I should add, I was glad I had my non-sleeping baby first as it made DD seem like a total breeze. She probably wasn’t even what people would call a ‘good’ sleeper, but I didn’t feel permanently exhausted even with her and toddler DS. A friend of mine almost didn’t have a second child as her first baby was similar to my son.

I think lots of babies sleep badly, it is more common than not in my experience.

I find the link between sleep deprivation and post natal depression very interesting, and obvious really. I wonder if in the old days, when new mothers stayed in hospital for 10 days and the midwives looked after the babies at night, the rates of PND were less? Just giving mothers that chance to rest and recover after birth.
I had a horrendous birth with my first and slept badly for weeks after he was born trying to breast feed. I was so exhausted I had hallucinations which could easily have been diagnosed as some kind of psychosis. It was only when DH stepped in and said enough, took him for 3 nights solid and formula fed him (yes...I know, shock horror!!) while I really slept that they stopped. I think the combination of a difficult birth combined with pressure to breast feed can really send you down the rabbit hole of exhaustion. And yes, mine slept ok eventually but even once or twice a night wake ups combined with early rises was enough to make me feel low for years. Even if you have a perfect sleeper, going to bed is never the same as before as there is always that anxiety that they might wake. Sleeping with one ear open.

My daughter was a good sleeper until she developed eczema aged about 18 months. She woke 3 times a night every night until she grew out of it aged about 6. Nearly killed me.

Most people with good sleepers are polite enough to STFU about it. Because those of us who didn't sleep for three years didn't want to hear your smug solutions, "have you tried..." YES I FUCKING HAVE.

This! So much! The smugness that comes with 'have you tired X, Y, Z because my babies never woke in the night from birth'.

In my experience it's a fairly even split of sleepers vs nocturnal babies and children. Mine are very much the nocturnal type... they don't nap either, but I wouldn't say I'm permanently exhausted or moaning about it. Dc1 would scream for hours every night and didn't sleep more than 2/3 hours in a row until she was 3, there was a point where it was so bad I'd be at work and not remember leaving home or the 45 minute drive there I was so tired. Every one learned pretty quickly that coffee was the only thing they should be offering.

MrsJ - do what you want with your kids but don't judge others who refuse to 'sleep train'. I helped all my kids to settle to sleep till about 3yrs old (mainly because a sibling comes along then and although DH can take over then it seems that naturally they don't need us anymore) and they're all absolutely fine. A 2yrs old is still a baby in many ways, nothing wrong with responding to his needs. My older girls (5 and 8) are a breeze at bed time - they just go on their own, read, sleep, no issue. My 3yrs old is fine too to be honest he only needs us for about 15-20minutes usually with him to fall asleep. No hardship for us and no drama.

Oh and yes at 2yrs old all of mine would wake a few times each night. I coped by co-sleeping and breastfeeding and having a husband who can function with broken sleep/little sleep if need be. Its just what it is. Eventually they all settled down and we have no drama at bedtime.

Interrupted sleep, how does it count?
5-6 years of 2-3 hours at one go.Multiple wake ups.
I had to get out of the car driving home as I was falling asleep behind the wheel.
Reflux, colic, omniprazole, ranitidine, teething, autism...
Maybe I was just in this unlucky 10%.

Also - the amount of money I spent trying to get some sleep! I bought:

• a dream sheep
• special night lights
• a rocking chair swing seat for day naps
• that rabbit book that’s meant to soothe babies to sleep
• fleece pyjamas in case he was cold
• grobag, in case the cot blanket was bothering him
• a dummy, in the early days

Not one thing made any difference.

It's all relative really. I have an excellent night sleeper (slept through from 3 months) but a poor napper. I used to envy the mothers whose babies would sleep for hours during the day! Mine always wakes at 6 which is totally fine for me as a morning person but some people find that intolerable.

I have a close friend with a terrible sleeper and she has been broken by it. BUT she refuses to try to sleep train or to get any expert help (which she could afford) and I do struggle with that attitude a little bit....

Mine was also a very poor eater until 11 months which caused no end of stress. Being a parent is stressful for everyone but the causes of stress are different!

Unless the kid is like 5-6yrs old I wouldn't consider 'expert help' if no other underlying concerns though it depends on how it impacts on the parents.

None of my kids ate much till past 1yrs old which is developmentally quite normal/expected. Food until 1yrs old is rly more for fun than for nutritional value.

Hmmm. It really depends. I did everything to train my son to get him to sleep but he didn't sleep through until he was one. He would settle quickly but it was exhausting. My main issue is his early he gets up. At the moment he is up at 5.30am most days. I am not a good morning person and I really strugggl to get to be before 10./11.00. I try but I can't sleep. So I am pretty tired. Last night he was asleep just after 8pm and up at 5.15. I'd do anything for a lie in to. 7.30.

I had good nappers but crap night sleepers - resisted going to sleep and staying asleep. Add in rubbish pregnancy sleep and it was indeed years of poor sleep. Its not forever thank goodness, but huge amounts of caffeine kept me going for a long time or I'd have been more of zombie than I was.

But I think if you're so desperate that your mental health is suffering, speaking to a sleep expert could really help. They have an independent perspective and could identify why baby is not sleeping, which you may not be able to identify, especially in an exhausted state. I will do it if I have a terrible sleeper next time!

Agree on the food point but I was very anxious about the fact that other babies were wolfing down huge plates of food by 7 months and mine was not!

DD slept through the night from 6 weeks but was a really bad napper.

I was never going to win because if I said she didn't nap in the day, I'd get well she sleeps at night, and if I said she slept through the night it was silenced as the parents I was around (family members) didn't want to hear it.

I didn't discuss sleeping unless asked because we put DD in her own room from 6 weeks which is against the guidelines and I felt as though if you didn't ebf, cosleep and weren't fine with the lack of sleep you were selfish.

I feel really sorry for parents with non sleepers. Mine went six hours at four weeks and was consistently sleeping eight hours a night at three months. I made a point of never mentioning it to any of my friends, particularly the one whose baby cried continuously until he started walking.

I hid the fact that my littlest won't sleep from everyone because my eldest didn't either and all the friendly advice made me incredibly stressed and sad. I expect I am far from alone in that, so it is very hard to say if it is the norm or not

I always managed to go to the loo, as well. I can never understand these mothers who said they didn't get to go to the loo alone until their (neuro-typical) children were 8. How?

It's almost as if every child is different, and women experience motherhood differently too. Also, just because a child is neuro-typical that doesn't mean they don't have their problems and are easy to parent. Both my DC are NT as far as we are aware. One was a great sleeper and would happily (and safely) entertain herself for ages if there were toys and books around her. My second is almost two is still waking in the night multiple times a night and up at 5am every morning and I cannot take my eyes off him for more than a minute or there will be carnage!

I am not a good morning person and I really strugggl to get to be before 10./11.00. I try but I can't sleep. So I am pretty tired. Last night he was asleep just after 8pm and up at 5.15. I'd do anything for a lie in to. 7.30.

Please don’t take this as being unkind, it’s really not meant to be - but in a case like this it seems to me like it’s the parent who requires ‘training’ and not the child. Your child is sleeping fine - 12 months is a good age to start sleeping through and with naps 8 pm - 5.30 am is a pretty good run through the night. You’re the one who can’t get to sleep, not your child - not that that’s unusual. It seems ironic that as parents we have pretty high sleeping expectations from our children when as adults it’s not uncommon to find getting to sleep and staying asleep very difficult!

Something that I suspect is common is that even if the period of self deprivation is relatively short, it often knackers your own ability to sleep well. So eventually DC sleeps reliably and you Just.Cannot.Sleep. I know a lot of people THAT happened to.

Sleep deprivation! Not self.

Both of mine have been fabulous sleepers (sleeping through from 10 weeks) but I’m still knackered because I’ve never had a chance to catch-up on sleep at the weekend and I’m up at 5.30 for work. There are also the random nights when one is teething, or has had a bad dream of vomits etc. It does all start to build up into perpetual sleep deprivation even if you have good sleepers. I have lots of sympathy for those with bad sleepers. It would send me crazy.