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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What exactly are CAMHs supposed to treat?

394 replies

WhiteC0sm05 · 26/06/2020 17:15

Seems to be very little in our area.

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OhTheRoses · 27/06/2020 11:46

No someone at camhs had it and it was in bold on every apt letter, on the front door, all over the offices. No visitor was to touch an orange or anything containing orange because a member of staff could die. The same appointment letter failed to enclose the map and information sheet about CAMHS.

gypsywater · 27/06/2020 11:49

Oh I see. Whilst I understand the rest of your post then, it does seem very OTT to be annoyed that they put this on a letter? Surely it is crucial to protect the staff member from death?!

LethargicLumpOfLockdownLard · 27/06/2020 11:54

@WhiteC0sm05

Oh yes has hoards of charity links my ds is too depressed to access.Said teen wishes he was dead. He is chronically depressed and anxious but mentioned self hatred ( not surprisingly as depressed) which they apparently don’t treat so told to trot off to a charity website. I suspect wishing he was dead isn’t enough, they’d be happier with an attempt- my GP seemed to think this is the way it works. Me hiding the paracetamol is probably doing him a dis-service.🤔
Same here, DD being suicidal and wishing he was dead is OK as long as he doesn't try to do anything. All they do when we contact crisis/duty support is call me back and make sure the situation is risk assessed, then they say nothing they can do and if he gets worse go to A&E. So unless actively attempting suicide, it's just sit and wait for the therapy sessions (been waiting since January assessment) which will now be video ones so even less useful.

They've openly admitted the service is shit and they can't do much for anyone...

LethargicLumpOfLockdownLard · 27/06/2020 11:55

DS, not DD.

WhiteC0sm05 · 27/06/2020 12:08

God I’m tired of it all. What do I do to ensure my ds gets the support he needs?What can we all do to highlight this shit show and get it changed?

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WhiteC0sm05 · 27/06/2020 12:18

www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/mod-camhs-tier-2-3-spec.pdf

Does anybody know what this is because I’ve got several failings from it which haven’t been adhered to in my ds’s case?

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Stompythedinosaur · 27/06/2020 12:21

Why aren’t CAMHs owning it? Why aren’t they shouting it from the rooftops?

You mean apart from the petitions, campaigning at the last election and the way professionals are voting with their feet by leaving the profession?

The reality is that this country overwhelmingly voted for the current poor provision. It isn't the people struggling on doing extra hours and buying resources out of their own pocket. Blaming them is the easy option.

gypsywater · 27/06/2020 12:23

@Stompy Exactly, there are clear systemic issues at play and until these are looked at nothing will change. Blaming individuals for having the audacity to have a bloody lethal orange allergy (you couldnt make this up!!) misses the point spectacularly.

WhiteC0sm05 · 27/06/2020 12:25

It’s the only option because they have been spectacularly shit and it isn’t just about money, it just isn’t.

Stop brushing aside inadequacies that are inexcusable by quoting lack of funding ad nauseum.

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popsydoodle4444 · 27/06/2020 12:28

I actually don't know what the point of Camhs is quite frankly because they've done sod all for my DD and everyone else's DD/DS I've spoken to.

It's such a shame as early intervention and treatment where needed can prevent these kids becoming adults with even worse mental health issues.

Not Camhs fault but the government who allocate funding and they seem to cut funding rather than increase it.Its the same with educational psychologists too.

OhTheRoses · 27/06/2020 12:33

Re the orange allergy all employers are bound to make reasonable adjustments. There is one documented case of a near fatal reaction the world. Allergic reactions to oranges are rare and mild overall. The response to this potential problem was therefore disproportionate and had a greater potential impact on children being referred. For example the autistic child whose routine may have included a glass of orange juice prior to leaving the house. A reasonable adjustment would have been for that member of staff to have been given other duties. It says a great deal about the needs of the staff being prioritised above the needs of the client. The potential fatal reaction may also say more about the mental health and anxiety of the person concerned. If that person's allergy was so intense presumably they should not have been at work at all and could not in their day to day lives use public transport or visit a shop because there coukd never be a guarantee that a stranger thwy encountered had not touched or consumed a product containing orange. It speaks volumes about common sense.

OhTheRoses · 27/06/2020 12:39

The government provides x resources to the NHS. Commissioners then decide how much to spend on MH and commissioned services from CAMHS. MH budgets get too small a proportion but it is not the government who decides what is spent on MH services for children, it is MH Trusts and commissioners.

The problem is being pushed into schools with no cognince that some children and families need and should have a confidential line between education and health issues.

If my child breaks a leg, the treatment pathway is decided by an appropriately qualified doctor. If my child has a broken brain or mental health the gateway is school or via a CAMHS nurse. In no other branch of medicine does this ludicrous system prevail.

okiedokieme · 27/06/2020 12:43

They treat young people with mental health problems, but they are not a counselling service for life events which cause temporary upset in youngsters eg there's specialist bereavement services, divorce is not a mental health problem etc. They were excellent for dd, no complaints but she has autistic and generalised anxiety

Mintychoc1 · 27/06/2020 12:44

I’m a GP and I have to admit I don’t really know what CAMHS will see either. Most of my referrals are bounced back. The current waiting time for ADHD assessment in my area is 18 months. It’s a criminally under funded area. When there is so much publicity about mental health and well-being for adults, kids seem to be ignored. Crazy really, because if CAMHS were better funded then adult mental health would be better.

Devlesko · 27/06/2020 12:50

I can't knock them at all, they were spot on with my dd and tested her for everything whilst supporting her mh, she had weekly appointments for 2 years.
They were absolutely amazing.
I do know she was very lucky as waiting lists can be long, and they have to prioritise the most needy with limited funds.
A big thanks to Salford CAMHS who work wonders with underprivileged children. Mine isn't under privileged it was just nearest to her school and staff could get her there when needed.

OhTheRoses · 27/06/2020 12:53

I entirely agree Mintychoc. Have you written to the GP chair of your local CCG about it, or your MP, noting the number of referrals that have been returned. Imagine what a network of articulate GPs could do on behalf of families in your CCG.

OhTheRoses · 27/06/2020 12:59

What would be really helpful upon assessment is: confirmation of tier, personal risk assessment, clear details of recommended treatment pathway and timeframe to therapy/treatment/diagnosis, name of consultant psychiatrist on the MDT who has signed off this approach nd clear information for parents about what they can do to support their young people in the meantime.

My advice to any parent dealing with CAMHS is to keep a written record of every interraction with CAMHS and to confirm in writing everything that has been agreed or advice given at that interraction - sent by recorded mail so you have an audit trail when they later claim x, y and z didn't happen or wasn't said. And write to your MPS.

WhiteC0sm05 · 27/06/2020 13:17

We’ve had zero paperwork. They closed my ds’s case “ accidentally” with no paperwork having apparently lost the paperwork saying he needed a different course of treatment after 4 crappy sessions of CBT. I chased them for months via phone calls and an email as he spiralled then a Crisis call in tears. Finally heard from his very bored sounding case worker who gave me the same 3 websites after me telling her he is too ill too ill to access them when she suggested he use them previously. That is all the advice and care we’ve had. They then had a meeting I thought was to put him up to the next tier but she rang and said they’d decided there was nothing they could do for him because he said he hated himself and they don’t deal with self hatred. He’s been too ill to speak on the phone. We didn’t get any paperwork from that either just one of those same 3 website recommendations( Young Minds which states self hatred is a sign of depression). 3 times they’ve pushed the same websites and every time Ivd said they don’t work.We’ve had zilch. I’ve now got a phone meeting with somebody high up after I burst into tears exploded and said we’d be complaining. I am expecting zilch and arse covering and want to bang my head against a wall.

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Gatr · 27/06/2020 13:18

This is how it works in my area at least (adult service)

All services are commissioned by Gps. They decide how much money each service gets given to offer the local mental health service.

My teams commissioners for example decided that our team no longer had funding for any ASD interventions. None. They decided that there was no funding for that in our area and people can be offered a one off assesment.

They allocate money based on us accepting "severe and enduring mental illness", this means technically those with depression, anxiety, reactions to life stressors (eg my last referral was a lady who had lost a child, and had multiple miscarriages) arent included

In general our service is funded on the assumption we will take on a certain percentage of referrals etc and that each person will have as an average 6 sessions of treatment. However the people we can offer those 6 sessions to now, are so much more unwell because of the referral criteria being so high. So in theory we should be offering average 6 sessions to people who have attempted suicide, are actively psychotic etc.

The comissioners seek out the "best deal" for who can provide services. So for example in our area funding for things like support groups, carers groups, or in your case support workers (those that would be coming out to support people to get out of the house, doing graded exposure) etc all goes to charities near us. Those charities have their own exclusion criteria that we have a mental health service have no control over. We are told we no longer need funding for this as they have paid else where to provide it
Obviously places bend the rules, for example do work on getting people with severe anxiety out of the house. However my job is "planned" so i know how many sessions i need to be providing in a week. For every session i provide over the 6, leaves someone else on a waiting list. I wont even go into how massively cost ineffective this is. Community care is cheap but poor, so people end up needed more expensive care that means theres less money to go round again. Throwing good money after bad.

This makes working there high stress, naturally our turnover of staff is massive. Each time a member of staff leaves their case load gets put in other members of staff, many places have rolling job adverts where by the time they recruit someone else has left. Quality of care goes down again, experienced staff become few and far between. Staff that understandably want to give better quality of care leave.

The analogy i use to explain it to my family is as follows.

You are a school dinner lady, you have been told you only need two staff members this shift and have minimun food in the kitchen. The queue is out the door, so you start trying to figure out who is most hungry.

You go to a table and they are vegetarian but clearly in need of food, you tell them you gave all the veggie stuff to the other cafe opposite, they should go there. They tell you the cafe is closed, the food is awful, and told them that they were too hungry so to come here.

You dont want to leave them without food, so you pick some of the food off other kids plates, spreading the meals thinner. You know the food the veggie is getting isnt nutritionally complete but its better than nothing right?

Theres a kid that was mildly hungry but youve spent too much time with the other tables so now they are ravenous and need even more food

The other really hungry kids, are looking at their food and saying "surely there must be more than this?". The food is keeping them from passing out, but isnt enough to keep them going in the long term. They will be back in a few hours.

The really good cooks are leaving saying that cant make the food spread out anymore. You go to a table who tell you that they told this all to the person before, you're the third member of staff and they are no closer to the food

Funding isnt the only issue, but its genuinely at the heart of many issues. If we could retain staff then we might stop treading water and be able to look beyond just keeping people safe

Gatr · 27/06/2020 13:21

I genuinely would encourage you to take complaints to the comissioners, and to see what the service has agreed to provide.

WhiteC0sm05 · 27/06/2020 13:26

Who and where are the commissioners?

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Gatr · 27/06/2020 13:33

Commisioners will be your clinical commissioning group. If you have a look online there should be evidence of who is funding the service. They are usually referred to as ccg's and gp's sit in ther decision making process to help guide what local needs are.

eastsurreyccg.nhs.uk/your-health/emotional-wellbeing-learning-disability-support-and-mental-health/child-and-adolescent-mental-health-services-camhs/

That for example is the east surrey ccg plan for cahms

The ccg should be available by google with access to contact information at least if not their plans

Nocaloriesinchocolate · 27/06/2020 13:33

Ever tried getting a CAMHS report for a DLA application?

WhiteC0sm05 · 27/06/2020 13:38

Just tried. You click on their plan and statement. Both come up unfound.

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OhTheRoses · 27/06/2020 13:40

@gatr our services or not were provided by those commissioners. In 2015 I was assured that no child would suffer the appalling standards of service encountered by dd due to the introduction of new services - Mindsight. Within 2 years the commissioners and LA had to commission an audit and inquiry because services had become worse under the new system.

I really hope you aren't holding up this area as a good example.