to be angry they are showing Jonty Braverys photo?

[calpolatdawn]

He clearly wanted the notoriety, his face should never have been shown, its was extremely pre meditated. Also identifying him as Autistic first dangerously mentally ill second 🙄 apparently experts have diagnosed his callousness points more to psychopathy than autism, no shit sherlock

i read he had been in a good family home until the age of 16, then he went into care

It's entirely possible for JB to have had the capacity to completely understand the ramifications of his actions, to have acted in full knowledge of what he was doing, AND to have been let down terribly by the support services assigned to his care.

The fact he wasn't taking his medication, and that he quite clearly articulated his thoughts and yet was still permitted out unaccompanied demonstrates a failure. There's no need to get into a semantic discussion about whether his support services are partially culpable for what he did to that poor child.

And yes, the emphasis on his autism is utterly repugnant, but absolutely typical of the way these things have gone in the past few years. I started noticing it about 5-10 years ago when the perpetrators mental health became the object of media focus whenever there was a mass shooting or a familial homicide in the US, rather than the fact that the sheer proliferation of firearms is clearly more of a factor that we can actually influence. You can take guns out of public hands, it's far more difficult to presume that you can prevent people becoming mentally unwell or that the undiagnosed are just going to behave themselves.

Mental health is undoubtedly a factor in a lot of violent crimes, but the problem is now that the focus on it is so absolute that it's doing nothing to challenge the stigma that the mentally ill, people with personality disorders, or people with autism are inherently violent and dangerous. There are stabbings and other violent crimes occurring every day, but the media never mentions the fact that in the majority of cases the perpetrator is perfectly mentally typical. The mush less frequent examples of murders and attacks carried out by people with a diagnosis are headline news, multi-page spreads. Sensationalism sells, but all it does is propagate stigma and ignorance.

I deal with MH in my immediate family and myself having ongoing treatment. I would rather harm myself to make a statement than hurt another living soul. He is wicked.

Do you think having a mental illness qualifies you to pass judgement on other people with mental illness? Do you have paranoid schizophrenia or another serious mental illness that causes a person to hear voices or experience command hallucinations? Do you have psychopathic personality disorder which results in a lack of empathy? Because unless you do then you can't say what you would do, you can't say you wouldn't harm another person. The truth is you don't know, none of us do.

Because no one wants to say what is the elephant in the room which is 'what on earth do we do with these violent people who have developmental disorders?

Can i just point out that most people who have developmental disorders and display challenging behaviour a) aren't psychopaths (thus don't pose the risk this man does) and b) their behaviour usually has certain triggers, such as sensory overload. It's not like there's all these ticking time bombs walking around like you imply. You know most people who commit violent offences are NT right? And developmentally disabled people are more likely to be the victim of a crime than the perpetrator.
t's a bit offensive for you to say "these violent people who have developmental disorders." First, because it sounds like you're implying all violent people have a developmental disorder (when obviously they don't) and secondly because you make it sound like there's thousands more of autistic people like this guy.
We aren't all psychopaths and we aren't all violent. Oh, and displaying challenging behaviour isn't the same as being violent. For one thing it doesn't usually involve throwing a kid off a building.

Mental health is undoubtedly a factor in a lot of violent crimes, but the problem is now that the focus on it is so absolute that it's doing nothing to challenge the stigma that the mentally ill, people with personality disorders, or people with autism are inherently violent and dangerous.

You do know autism isn't a mental health disorder?

Yes. I had exactly the same thought when watching the news yesterday. He's got exactly what he wanted. He'll be loving this.

The ignorance on this thread is astounding.

He's scum and no, it shouldn't be shown.

@JanMeyer

Yes. I never implied that it was.

I'm autistic myself fwiw

His autism is neither here nor there. He is an evil fucking monster and I hope he rots in jail and burns in hell for eternity. No bit of me feels sorry for him and how he has been failed. He's a psychopath and given he was receiving treatment and concerns had been raised there will be professionals involved who should feel very responsible for all of this. My sympathy lies solely with that poor, innocent 6 year old (at the time) and his family. Their lives have been ruined. Stop the fucking handwringing about him.

Clearly Jonty does not have the mental capacity to spend the rest of his life in an adult mainstream prison. To do that to him is equally barbaric.

He is likely need to spend the rest of his life locked up to protect the public. Whether that is in a mainstream prison or a secure hospital will be a matter to be decided upon clinical assessment surely.

He has a 15 year sentence, so possibly out after 7 or 8 ?

Too many people worry about the perpetrator and not the victim.

That poor family and especially their son, lives ruined.

Our MH "services" are severely lacking, my DD did a placement in a MH medium secure unit recently (pre covid), shocking lack of community care, fine in the unit, little once released.

Have you given it a thought of what notoriety might mean to him that he possibly does not understand or view the world the same way as you do.

Of course his picture should not be in the papers because the incident should never ever have happened.

It’s a serious failing in his team maybe that due to cut backs or just poor management of his care.

He's a psychopath and given he was receiving treatment and concerns had been raised there will be professionals involved who should feel very responsible for all of this.

They shouldn't feel responsible, they are responsible. Support for those with MH issues (he had personality disorder in addition to autism) is an absolute disgrace, but what a surprise, MN is largely ignorant.

@yobeans no he is responsible. He carried out the crime.

Do not put this on others. You have no idea how damaging that statement is.

He is a criminal.

@jasjas1973

He got a life sentence. How would he be out in 8 years? Read the sentencing remarks.

I remember hearing this on the news last summer, it just made my blood run cold, DC1 had recently turned 5, we used to (pre-Covid) go up to London and visit museums etc...just so utterly awful and evil.

Poor, poor child...I cannot imagine what him and his parents have gone through and are still suffering.

That man needs to be removed from society permanently...it was chilling listening to that recording on the news yesterday.

He received a life sentence with a minimum term of 15 years and the judge made clear he may never be released.

@Davincitoad yes he did carry out the crime, the same crime he literally told one of his workers he was going to commit a few years previously. The social care and MH care in this country is absolutely abysmal, to have the level of care he did, they must have had significant concerns or he must have been deemed to require it. Why aren't people allowed to criticise the system? Do people really not understand MH issues?

That man needs to be removed from society permanently

That's what he was telling his workers, no one did anything about it.

Why aren't people allowed to criticise the system? Do people really not understand MH issues?

I think the problem is lots of people do so from a position of ignorance.

think the problem is lots of people do so from a position of ignorance

True. It's not about individual workers (although as anywhere some are rubbish), they work exceptionally hard in challenging circumstances with inadequate resources. But the system itself is underfunded, oversubscribed and woefully, dangerously and actually quite worryingly inadequate, yet in a lot of discussions about provision you're not allowed to criticise it, it's always the person who has been failed fault. I suppose ignorance is bliss, and it's a fortunate position to be in really.

He's not mentally unwell in the sense that he knew what he was doing and that it was wrong and he planned to do it. That's why he was found culpable.
He has ASD and a personality disorder . He can't be treated in the same way as someone experiencing psychosis can be. Yes as a child I agree he was let down by the system, but he's now a man and I gather has shown no remorse so I struggle to feel any real pity for him. Lots of serial killers have personality disorders - we don't call them mentally Ill.

This is the unfortunate flip-side of decades of campaigning to prevent people being locked up on a whim, as right and proper as that is.

There's an institutional reluctance to detain people, even when there's a expression of concern by an individual that they believe they pose a risk to society. It's the same with people who are suicidal. You can beg to be treated urgently because of intrusive thoughts and ideation, but in lot of circumstances you'll just be turned away. A lot of this is just down to a shortage of provision, but there is a prevailing view (rightfully so) that detention should be an absolute last resort. I wonder who was actually present when JB gave that interview, because although there is a reluctance, shrinks and MHO's can order a detention when they genuinely believe there's a risk to self or others. Someone, somewhere has made a judgement call, and on this particular occasion got it tragically wrong.

It's baffling to me that he'd displayed a propensity for violence, talked about planning to hurt people, and was still permitted unaccompanied outings in public spaces, all while apparently being left to his own devices with regards to whether he was taking his medication or not.

I've no idea who or what you're talking about so this thread means I'll now look him up to find out what he's done, so on a way you're adding to his notoriety.

From the position of ignorance that we have, the decision to allow him to go out alone to central London when he had previously been with two staff appears questionable. But I wonder what legal framework could have applied to require that. He was 16+. Seems to have been capacitous. There may not have been much option. Its hard to know.