to be angry they are showing Jonty Braverys photo?

[calpolatdawn]

He clearly wanted the notoriety, his face should never have been shown, its was extremely pre meditated. Also identifying him as Autistic first dangerously mentally ill second 🙄 apparently experts have diagnosed his callousness points more to psychopathy than autism, no shit sherlock

gypsy
That’s interesting. The difference with this case though was that she was actively trying to stop herself doing the terrible act not revelling in it.

Agree. He wanted all this. To be famous. They shouldn't show it.

He was so obsessed with heights and falling from tall buildings. Just a shame for that poor little boy that JB hadn't jumped off one before this happened.

I agree @Mrsfrumble. My own son is autistic so I’m only too aware of the judgement and prejudice

Tell that to the professionals who told us that the person who abused my ds(which is awful and unforgivable) did so because of his autism.

Just because a professional says it, doesn't make it right. Autism does not make people sexually assault children for gods sake.
I've heard professionals say many an absurd thing about autism, I've heard an actual doctor say "we're all on the spectrum somewhere." So yeah, i don't trust most professionals when it comes to their opinions about autism.

@Davincitoad

I can’t believe some people are here are justifying what he did as a failure of the metal health system. Sickening

^I second this.

A mental illness goes on top of someone's personality. His psychopathy is part of his personality. It matters hugely when considering culpability.

Yes, I know what a mental illness is and what mental disorders are. It's interesting that you think it's very significant when thinking about culpability. Having a personality disorder is not a choice and to be diagnosed with one means that functioning is significantly impaired in some way. Treatments for PD exist (the jury, as I am sure you know, is very much out on their efficacy but that's nothing new in the world of mental health!) If we accept that PDs exist, that they are a mental disorder and that those diagnosed with them experience significant impairment of functioning because of them, I'm not sure why individuals diagnosed with them will automatically be more culpable for their actions than individuals diagnosed with mental illnesses.

@JanMeyer

Tell that to the professionals who told us that the person who abused my ds(which is awful and unforgivable) did so because of his autism.

Just because a professional says it, doesn't make it right. Autism does not make people sexually assault children for gods sake.
I've heard professionals say many an absurd thing about autism, I've heard an actual doctor say "we're all on the spectrum somewhere." So yeah, i don't trust most professionals when it comes to their opinions about autism.

Really? The professionals I dealt with certainly aren't the only ones who seem to think so. www.thetimes.co.uk/article/taboo-subject-of-autism-and-paedophilia-must-be-tackled-to-improve-lives-qcxjfxs82

In case anyone thinks so, I'm absolutely not trying to 'excuse' Bravery or anyone else with a mental disorder who commits a heinous act.

The SCR for this will be an interesting one.

I wonder how the parents of his victim feel? He has absolutely devastated the world of another family on purpose to highlight his own plight.

@Iwalkinmyclothing There are no established treatments for psychopathy in particular. Unfortunately.

No matter how mentally ill someone is they have to accept responsibility up to a point at least. Staff will have presumed well he's on meds therefore can roam for 4 hours. You can't predict human behavior but mentally ill people are more unpredictable. I think given the level of violence he should of been escorted. He is classed as vulnerable but because of the sever e nature of the crime his picture needed to be shown. obviously needs proper assessment before the media declare his mental state. Absolutely awful for the child and parents. 6 years old. It's very upsetting. 😢😢😢

Prison is the best place for this nasty piece of work

He won’t be treated favourably by his inmates,hopefully his days will be full of fear like his young victims

No matter how mentally ill someone is they have to accept responsibility up to a point at least.

Definitely in this case, he was very aware what he was doing, manipulative and he planned/researched it.

If people are saying people with mental illness shouldn’t accept responsibility, where does it lead? You could say, all murderers and rapists have a mental illness, because what person murders and rapes?

I am disturbed that life means 15 years and not life. How does that make people feel that this man could be free and let loose to do this again.

And I agree with PP where there has to be some lone drawn and responsibility accepted.

I live high up with a balcony with 2 young children, this has impacted me very deeply. It makes me feel sick when I think of what happened.

There are no established treatments for psychopathy in particular.

So what do we with psychopaths? This is not a facetious question; I’m genuinely interested in what people think the answer is. Over the years I’ve seen some chilling posts here in MN, from parents whose child (usually a teenaged boy) behaves in disturbing way; threatens and / or hurts family members, shows no empathy or remorse. And the poor parent is at their wit’s end, knowing they’ve lost control of the situation but unable to get any help from CAMHs, social services, GP etc.

A personality disorder may not be the same as mental illness, but the individual may still need intervention to prevent them from harming others.

Sure. But that sort of misses the point I was getting at.

and its worth noting not every psychopath is murderous, a lot enter highly competitive professions, CEOs, banking,high adrenaline professions and not all psychopaths are highly intelligent either. i didn't know he'd lied about hearing voices.

100% of my sympathy lies with the child and parents that had their lives devastated because of this man's premeditated and well planned actions! If he was that annoyed about the treatment he was receiving then killing/raping or whatever else he googled to do should have never entered into his mind. I deal with MH in my immediate family and myself having ongoing treatment. I would rather harm myself to make a statement than hurt another living soul. He is wicked.

I am finding the tone of this thread disturbing.

It is clearly a devastating and unspeakable act and at the same time it is a dire failure of our ability to look after people who have severe mental health issues. Clearly Jonty does not have the mental capacity to spend the rest of his life in an adult mainstream prison. To do that to him is equally barbaric.

Because no one wants to say what is the elephant in the room which is 'what on earth do we do with these violent people who have developmental disorders?'.

What we do is we hope that living in sheltered accommodation with some of the poorest paid and least educated staff will have an okay-ish outcome and that things that happen to that lovely little boy will be rare.

It is a multi - layered tragedy.

I find this case just really tough to think about. That poor little boy

But he clearly HAS been deemed appropriate to be in a prison? Following numerous psych evaluations?

I haven't read the whole thread, but remember at the time his carers said he wanted to go to prison forever because his care set up wasn't good enough.

@Ponoka7

Can we hold people responsible for what their mental illness makes them do?

I partly see it as another failure of our Mental health services. It's looking like the stabbing in Richmond is another.

My DD runs residential units for adults with a complex diagnosis. They have to fight to get one-on-ones, or two-on-ones, sometimes it takes an incident. She's had residents end up in Broadmoor and Rampton, because they were let down.

This is a 17 year old who has been allowed to fall through the system and this is the consequence.

I agree,

and what's with this notoriety business?

he was allowed out for 4 hours a day, he was not well

oh, just realized there are pages of arguments discussion about this.

and this pandemic is going to cause even more cut backs,
what a thought