To return my rescue dog?

[Brunomarsbars]

Firstly let me say I don't ta ke this lightly. I never thought I'd be considering returning a dog.

I adopted a young dog at the weekend from a national dog charity. Specifically said on my application that I needed a dog-friendly dog. The dog I was matched with was described as "indifferent" to dogs which sounded fine. Didn't need him to be best friends with every dog he meets, but just not aggressive. He's the loveliest, most adorable dog with humans but I noticed from the word go he was grumpy with dogs. He'd strain at the leash and bark, even when the dogs were some distance away.

Then, he attacked a dog on a walk. He was on his leash but a dog came running up behind him and took him by surprise - he whipped round and bit it, and wouldn't let go. Fortunately the other dog didn't fight back and didn't appear to be too hurt, but mine was desperately fighting to get out of his harness to chase the dog down. It was really shocking.

I finally got a chat with the dog charity behaviourist today who advised it was worrying and concerning as the dog had given no warning signs, just launched straight into a bite. She advised not introducing the dog to my partner's dog yet (fair enough) and that they can do a 'consultation' with him but she can't make any guarantees that he'll improve or ever be ready to be introduced to the other dog.

I could muzzle him out and about, but wouldn't solve the issue of when my boyfriend's dog comes to visit (once a month as we are in a LDR).

I'm gutted as he's just adorable with people but as a first-time dog owner, I feel out of my depth. The charity is 1.5 hours drive away so not like I can pop there regularly.

AIBU to give him back on the basis of the fight/general dog grumpiness?

I'm sure he can be a lovely dog, but for the OP as a new owner and one that NEEDS a dog friendly dog this guy may be better placed elsewhere and she may have a much happier and less stressful life with a different dog-chilled dog who will also have a great life with the OP. It used to be that rescues often fostered dogs to potential owners for a fortnight to let them get properly acquainted before the adoption went through and no judgement made if they weren't right for each other.

[quote suziesue45]@Vodkacranberryplease

Absolutely NOWHERE in this thread does it say what kind of dog it was or that it was small OR that it seriously injured the other dog, infact OP stated the other dog was NOT injured. All dogs can be trained, look at the other message under my original one. It takes time and effort which some people just don't have.[/quote]
As I trainer and behaviourist, I am going to have to burst your bubble.

Not all dogs can be trained. Most can be and almost all can be improved to a degree with time and patience alongside the right home situation and a dedicated owner. But definitely not all and no responsible professional would claim you can. Hence the advice the OP received from the trainer

TempestHayes Thank you, will do!

@wink1970 I'm eager to see her playing happily with other dogs, the issue we've had for years is she does well and starts relaxing then some idiot allows their dog to go for her or something and we're back to square one but she's started getting over it quicker now and the more she gets to be close to other dogs and be happy the better she gets. Scent class really helped her too but we've gone to 1-2-1 classes now which the trainer brings dogs she's chosen to introduce to her :)

Behaviour consultant here..

I think you should see through the consultation at least - I would be worried about 'indifferent to dogs' tbh, that sounds like a dog frightened to do anything not a dog genuinely relaxed about other dogs.

However, on the other hand, a dog on a lead on a walk, who has a strange dog run straight into him, who whips round, grabs out of fear and wont let go (yes, that 'wont let go' is fear, they know if they let go the other dog can get them) ... that doesn't sound like an unreasonable reaction in a dog worried by other dogs, in a strange place, trapped on a lead, suddenly scared by another dog.

It may be that he is highly reactive and that this is a long job to fix and not a job you want - but I think you do have a responsibility to at least see a professional, find out whats really going on and see how much work it really is - it may be that once your dog settles in (and this takes several months, not days) things are fine, and it maybe that all that is currently needed is sensible, careful management rather than lots of active training.

Or it may be that this dog IS more than you signed up for, in which case you'd then be returning him knowing far more detail that will then help him find the right home.

@Nottherealslimshady you'll get there, you are doing the right thing. Our trainer ('ours' as I'm really invested in the dog!) brought his own police dogs the first few times, then slowly introduced others, and behavioural training.

WinkDog now walks with packs of 5 or 6 on group training walks! He'll still go for cats, and does now do warning growls on the odd occasion (which is not in his nature, whippet/lurchers are silent hunters) but I have seen him ignore fluffies and boisterous pups so many times now. The key is constant training, I'm so proud of my DM and the work she has put in.

@suziesue45 it's not about time or patience. That implies if only the OP tries hard enough it will all be happy and fluffy. The size of dog wasnt mentioned but if it was a small dog this would be a different thread.

It's a sad fact of life that a nippy Chihuahua is a totally different proposition to an out of control Akita.

And why is the onus on everyone else to have a dog that doesnt run up to other dogs to say hello? That's just crazy - it's what dogs do. But then almost without exception owners of dangerous dogs will blame the other dogs.

I applaud the PP who has a sight hound in training and it certainly sounds like you are getting there!

But as a dog trainer said they can't all be trained. And some people don't want to be responsible for the death or serious injury of someone else's dog. I can't imagine what it must feel like to witness your dog being ripped to pieces by another one because someone wanted to ignore the facts.

And why is the onus on everyone else to have a dog that doesnt run up to other dogs to say hello? That's just crazy - it's what dogs do. But then almost without exception owners of dangerous dogs will blame the other dogs

Are you seriously this dense? Yes the onus is on people to CONTROL their dogs. Even if they are 'friendly', an out of control dog is one that runs up to other dogs and people. If you have a dog that does that, it shouldn't be off lead and it most certainly is their fault. People like you, with your attitude are the problem.

@neron you are actually insane. 'People like me'. You mean people with normal non psychotic dogs walking their dog in a place where dogs are allowed off lead, all other dogs are off lead, and peoples dogs don't attack other dogs?

Around here if you have a dangerous dog not muzzled you are in a gang or an equally psychotic and entitled chav.

I don't know what world you live in but it's clearly a pretty nasty one. I've had a dog 13 years and in several parts of London, and watched the interactions between her and other dogs. It is not normal for a dog to attack another without warning and it is 100% normal for dogs to greet each other by going up to each other.

Young dogs in particular who are still learning will say hello to me thinking there might be treats and to my dog wanting to say hello. So it's ok for your vicious dog to kill them then?

Whatever dystopian hell you live in might be your world but it isn't the world I live in, or the world the vast majority of MNers live in. Ugh. What a horrid thing to see first thing.

I might add both times my dog was attacked she was nowhere near the other dog or even looking at it. Once she was sniffing in the bushes facing away (over 20 ft away) and hadn't even seen it snd once just walking past ignoring it.

I'm also pretty sure the tiny dachshund puppy I know that was killed wasn't exactly running up behind dogs either given I only ever saw it tootling around on the grass near the young couple that owned it who were watching it very carefully.

What's next? People shouldn't have small dogs cause they are just like rats anyway? They shouldn't take dogs to the park if they can't defend themselves?

Take it back. It's gone for another dog without warning. That's very aggressive.

@Vodkacranberryplease any dog that runs up to anyone or other animal is out of control. I'm not talking specifically about dangerous dogs - I'm talking ALL dogs and ALL situations. Guide dogs, nervous dogs and people, adults and children who don't like or who are scared of dogs. The world I live in is a responsible one, where my dog is controlled. Letting a dog run up to anyone or anything is irresponsible, regardless of whether its friendly or not. You truly are deluded to think otherwise, and yes people like you are the problem. It is not OK for any dog to run up at any time unless invited/agreed.

It's a sad fact of life that a nippy Chihuahua is a totally different proposition to an out of control Akita.
What's a really sad fact is that some dog owners of smaller, reactive dogs rely on this to blame anyone and everything for setting their dog off.

We have medium sized dogs and it really annoys when smaller dogs are allowed to pull / snap / lunge for our dogs whilst the owner says "oh they're just a bit reactive, your dog's must have scared them". This has happened when my dogs are on lead (reactive dog doesn't like bigger dogs), off lead walking to heel (reactive dog finds other dogs scary), when they're playing in a field and return to me on the whistle (dogs moving fast is a trigger), I've walked past on a path (reactive dog doesn't deal with people well), my sister was nipped by a reactive dog (it must have been the treats in your pocket, they have food issues). There's always an excuse from different owners of reactive dogs that seemingly can't be resolved by the owner deciding to walk them away from situations that apparently set their dog off.

Owners like that are probably the ones who sit on mumsnet and argue that all normal dogs who are trained should never be off lead because they're 'dangerous and out of control', whilst also berating other people for not wanting to take a dog that's got proven violent and aggressive behaviours.

Send it back, it’s going to be a giant pain in the neck for years to come, let one of the dog martyrs on here adopt it.

I don't think it's unfair to return the dog no, you made it clear you wanted to adopt a dog which was fine around other dogs and they've given you a dog who very clearly isn't, not just from the bite but the excessive barking.

I'm more concerned that a rescue centre are happily allowing people to take dogs which have socialising issues. I would suggest a report to whoever controls the licenses to operate of rehoming centers before someone is given a dog that doesn't meet their requirements and it attacks a child.

Do you have an update OP?

Return. Aggression needs a very experienced owner to get under control, or it just gets worse.
Growling is one thing, but biting (and not letting go!) entirely different

I am surprised that the rescue didn't insist on the dog meeting your partner's dog before rehoming to you, since they were going to be together one weekend per month minimum and potentially living together long term

Absolutely!
OP, why on earth did you adopt a dog without first testing it with your partner's? Did you discuss this with the charity?

When are you next seeing your partner so you can see if the dogs are OK together?

You feel out of your depth so how much research and training have you done in preparation for getting a dog?