to think that people don't realise how tough it is being a GP?

[naima99]

My dad is a GP. He used to love his job, got home at a reasonable time and had more time to spend with his patients.

Now, he regularly gets to work at 7am and leaves at 9:30pm. He has no time for lunch a lot of the time. He hates that he doesn't have the time he used to have for his patients. He gets tonnes of abuse when he's running late but isn't allowed to say that he's late because his last patient was having a suspected heart attack in front of him, or that he had a child in front of him with undiagnosed diabetes whose life was in danger etc. He's lost so many staff members because they're all fed up. He has no life outside of work because he is working on the weekends as they're so short staffed.

He knows so many doctors in the same position.

Now I'm not claiming that GPs are heroes or deserve any more than the rest of us, but I hear them being slated so so much.

People get angry that they can't get an appointment, that the GP only let them talk about two medical conditions in a 10 minute appointment, that google told them something different so the GP must be wrong which results in complaints or anger directed towards them. I was on a conference call the other day when my colleagues randomly started slaying GPs and them not seeing people face to face during covid saying they need to 'man up'

I don't know if IABU to think that a lot of people don't quite understand that appointments in the surgery are such a small part of being a GP, and that it is a pretty gruelling job at times. Maybe I am just being protective over my dad as I can see him falling apart in front of me.

Does anyone agree or AIBU?

I do think these threads about the slating of professions are a bit pointless. There are an awful lot of jobs that are very stressful, demanding, and that require a great deal of unpaid overtime as well as involve daily abuse from the public or risk of health in the current covid situation but they never seem to get a mention.

Personally I've never heard anyone say they think a GP has an easy job. I've never thought it personally either. GP's that I know personally are extremely well compensated and have a very high standard of living in exchange for their role though, as well as the fact they are likely to have come from a privileged background in the first place. Those things are nothing to do with how hard their job is (very hard I'm sure) but I don't see the point of the endless competition on here about which of the middle class jobs works the hardest without the due credit. I've met some great professional GP's and some very very bad ones.

I've worked in retail management and also been a teacher. The former was, for me, so much less hard work and mental health toll than the latter. Endless aggressive targets, daily unpaid overtime (I did 12 hours several day a week, my longest shift was a double which was 16 hours). Calls on days off, conference calls twice a day about targets, responsibility for a shop full of people and their safety and HR adherence, responsibility for huge sums of money, regular and constant abuse from the public, lower pay scale, very limited sick pay, low holiday allowance, regularly having to intervene with shoplifters and being at risk. Lots jobs are bloody hard work and you don't know until you've done them.

GP kind of do have the best compared to other setting (hospitals or clinics). Like in every job they will be mainly good workers then you will always get the odd one. I’ve never really had a terrible experience with any GP.
However they are definitely some GPS that I feel are not very receptive and so I don’t book in with that particular Dr. The double appointment thing really annoys me.

I had been in the room less than 10 mins got something printed off. I needed the pill which I had had previously (some time ago). The Dr refused as he said he didn’t have time and would of needed to do my BP!!

I was so shocked he refused!!

@Davodia

They get paid a fortune though, so there’s no need to work long hours. Presumably they could work part time and still earn as much as a normal full time job.

This is true. Many aspire to be a GP because it’s a dam site easier than some of the other medical roles. Not to mention the salary. I don’t think really you can complain about your work load on that kind of salary.

@321youreback

With any job though surely, if you don't find it fulfilling anymore, look for another role. Doesn't matter if you are a doctor or a chef etc if it's making you stressed change.

👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

Agreed.

I feel the current government has made things worse for doctors as a whole, as part of its long-term strategy to undermine the NHS in favour of increasing privatisation.

To your average person it might seem like GPs earn a lot. But actually, when you look at what other professionals (lawyers, banking, actuaries etc) the other professionals have scope to earn the same with years less education and professional training and have better working conditions.

I should add, I'm not medical myself. But I have worked in a role alongside medical staff and seen the pressure they are under. The rate of alcoholism, eating disorders etc is so high compared to other professionals. The vast majority of doctors are doing their jobs because they are good, caring people that want to help others, not for the money.

'they are likely to have come from a privileged background in the first place'

Many of them don't, actually.

To your average person it might seem like GPs earn a lot. But actually, when you look at what other professionals (lawyers, banking, actuaries etc) the other professionals have scope to earn the same with years less education and professional training and have better working conditions.

Top city based lawyers, bankers etc do earn a lot of money, but that's not typical of the entire professions. There are lots of qualified lawyers and accountants who don't even earn enough to pay higher rate tax in "normal" firms out in the regions. A bog standard GP out in the regions can earn typically £100k - a bog standard lawyer out in the regions can earn typically £40k. The GP will also have a million pound plus pension pot when they take early retirement in their late 50s - something a typical lawyer can only dream about.

The workload in GP is such that it’s totally unsustainable 5 days a week for most. So GP’s take some of the advice in this thread- reduce their hours or switch to public health or education stuff, and eschew partnerships. And then the primary care service suffers more and you struggle to get seen!

You’ve got to question if GP is such the gravy train that some in this thread profess it to be then why on earth do so few doctors want to do it? None of my friends from medical school picked GP. Of those I’ve worked with I don’t know a single GP trainee, male or female, who wants to work more than a 3 day, 36 hour week. No one wants to sign up for a partnership- it’s a one way trip to total burnout.

I’ve been qualified for 6 years and I get paid £2 a month before tax for 100 hours a month being ‘on call’ at home - I have no choice whether to opt in or out of that.

@TotorosFurryBehind

'they are likely to have come from a privileged background in the first place'

Many of them don't, actually.

They do in a fairness the ones I met anyway.

I think that many public-facing roles are becoming unbearable; medicine, teaching, the police force and emergency services. It's horrible and I wonder what it will take to change this.
Yep. Why can't we organise society so that people can do jobs that don't take over their lives? And before anyone says 'they can leave/change career' I think there's a huge number of people doing more than they want unable to step back a bit, and contribute with the skills they have. We shouldn't want to chuck those skills away. Is a systemic thing not an individual thing.

And yes every time I go to the GP I want to carry a sign saying 'This isn't good enough but I blame successive governments (mostly Tories), not you.' They can only work within the system they are stuck in.

I've had to give up nursing because I can't obtain help from the GP. I desperately need mental health input, but the GP can't or won't engage. They make you feel like you're a nuisance and he prescribed the wrong medication.

I can't get upset about GPs work life. At least they can pay their mortgages.

If you work as a nurse and a doctor prescribes medication wrong for a patient and the nurse doesn’t realise (it happens a lot) it’s the nurse that will be in the firing line!! NOT the Dr. Doctors are also a lot better protected in the med professional

Doctors are highly looked up to in fact many of times patients will complain until they see the Doctor and then all is much calmer after usually.

TBH I've always admired anyone who has chosen this profession. The very thought of poking and prodding body parts and orifices of members of the British public gives me the heebie jeebies. Respect here from me OP.

My dad was a GP - retired early in the 90's (only by 5 years) because of the way the NHS was heading. He carried on working as an occassional locum until he was 80. He said he was able to do the job he'd always loved on his terms. I remeber as a child how long his hours were - often on duty at weekends and Christmas. So many Christmas dinners interrupted. It has got progressively worse over the years - I'm nkt surprised GPs are on theor knees and there's a recruitment crisis.

Doctors (whether GP or Hospital) don’t earn anywhere near what the general public always seem to imagine! The lies that get told in the press about this (probably coming from the Government), are to blame I suppose. The figures literally get plucked out of the air. They do it to Nurses as well.

My dh is a hospital consultant and earns the least out of all his old Uni friends. They live lifestyles we couldn’t possibly afford. No we aren’t poor or badly off but we certainly aren’t as well off as people tend to think.

Sadly. My gp nearly killed me. Three times too! To be fair. I had a very rare illness. But I went in and asked about it. The rare illness and she said I wouldn't have that. As it was too rare! So I'd even questioned her about it

Even when the blood tests came back dangerously low. She said it must of been a cock up and to ignore it!

The new gp I have though. Is amazing. I really like her and for her to of gained my trust. It's taken her a long time.

The problem shouldn't land on the gp. If your dad wouldn't have a surgery to run. That's not his problem. At some point. If he wanted to go part time. Then he goes part time. People would have to find a way to cope. The surgery manager would HAVE to find a way to cope. The cuc would have to find more drs. They need to stop paying locum drs a small fortune. Then more people would want a full time job. There's loads of flaws.

@321youreback

With any job though surely, if you don't find it fulfilling anymore, look for another role. Doesn't matter if you are a doctor or a chef etc if it's making you stressed change.

Well yes, a lot of people are leaving medicine for a different career. Or leaving the UK to work abroad. But that in itself is a symptom of the problem. These are very bright, motivated, hard-working people who trained for years for a particular career, only to be so ground down by the work that feel forced to leave. That is probably the best thing for them on a personal level but as a society we should be worried! It leaves gaps which in a lot of cases are very difficult to fill, which in turn translates to poorer patient care, and that’s not to mention the cost to the tax payer to train a doctor to that level. So why is the reaction, when doctors (or any public sector worker, for that matter!) say how hard their job is, to shrug and tell them to leave if they don’t like it? We shouldn’t be sitting by while talented people leave medicine in their droves, we should be petitioning to change the working conditions so we can retain as many people as possible, to the benefit of everyone.

To top it al off

Now I've been diagnosed. That was a hard time. I spent many thousands of pounds privately. I had a de shout right up to my face. I had someone write in my medical notes that I was trying to MAKE myself unwell. That note will never ever come off. Never!!!!! It's forever on my medical records. As is a note that they mixed me up with someone who had social services interaction and thought I'd stolen a child! (You can't make this tuff up! She had the exact same name as me and my birthday except one month!)

I'm STILL TO THIS DAY! Asked about BOTH things.

But also. None of the gp s have ever ever found out about my condition. Or learnt. Or even really knew how to manage it. I've had to become the medical patient who advocates for herself.

I think all of the people crowing ‘if you hate it so much get another job’ would be the first to complain if it went from taking two to four weeks for an appointment to two to four months.

For anyone who's interested in actually seeing what a gp actually earns have a look on indeed or similar. They don't earn peanuts, yes it's not as good as some tech or banking jobs etc but it's far better than the national average.

Since GPs managed their spectacular renegotiation of their contracts some years ago, I have limited sympathy (although I give them much kudos for what they 'won' at the negotiating table)

They are, by some margin, in the most favourable position of all HCPs in the country.

As self-employed individuals, long hours are expected and are the normal part and parcel of their very generous terms.

I'll reserve my sympathy for HCAs who work their fingers to the bone for rubbish pay, conditions, prospects and status.

It seems to me that there are huge disparities across locations. When we lived in a fairly deprived area with a high BAME population, the GPs surgery was so overpressured and under-resourced. Clinics never running less than 40 minutes late, on two occasions the GP asked very apologetically if I minded them eating something during the appointment as it was mid-afternoon and they hadn't eaten since leaving the house at 6am. One of these was heavily pregnant. The waiting room was always heaving with entire families who'd all attended together. From overhearing conversations at reception, many patients had very limited English, which presumably puts more strain on the 10-minite appointment time. The individual GPs were no doubt trying their very best but there was no way they could provide decent care under those circumstances.
We've moved twice in the last few years and my 2 most recent GPs have been based in more affluent, white middle class areas, and the patient experience couldn't be more different. Not because the GPs are necessarily better, they just seem better resourced, less harried, less weary...
I don't know how the funding works for these things but it's clearly not equitable.

My friend does 3 sessions a week about 9k a session & has a great pension. Undoubtedly she works hard but having children hasn't hampered her career & going part time was never not an option. Very different in the private sector.

” People get angry that they can't get an appointment, that the GP only let them talk about two medical conditions in a 10 minute appointment.”

While I certainly would not express my frustration at my GP, I think it’s more than valid to be unhappy at a system that has allowed the above to occur. I never condone abuse, I can see why people who are ill and scared sometimes complain at a doctor rather than writing to their MP or similar.

Most GPs do a good job and I appreciate it’s a high stress job and the pay isn’t life changing but it can certainly give you a very nice quality of life. It seems GP work is compatible with part time working too which is a bonus. That said, I recognise the pressure they’re under and as frontline workers, they must get it in the neck a lot.