to think that people don't realise how tough it is being a GP?

[naima99]

My dad is a GP. He used to love his job, got home at a reasonable time and had more time to spend with his patients.

Now, he regularly gets to work at 7am and leaves at 9:30pm. He has no time for lunch a lot of the time. He hates that he doesn't have the time he used to have for his patients. He gets tonnes of abuse when he's running late but isn't allowed to say that he's late because his last patient was having a suspected heart attack in front of him, or that he had a child in front of him with undiagnosed diabetes whose life was in danger etc. He's lost so many staff members because they're all fed up. He has no life outside of work because he is working on the weekends as they're so short staffed.

He knows so many doctors in the same position.

Now I'm not claiming that GPs are heroes or deserve any more than the rest of us, but I hear them being slated so so much.

People get angry that they can't get an appointment, that the GP only let them talk about two medical conditions in a 10 minute appointment, that google told them something different so the GP must be wrong which results in complaints or anger directed towards them. I was on a conference call the other day when my colleagues randomly started slaying GPs and them not seeing people face to face during covid saying they need to 'man up'

I don't know if IABU to think that a lot of people don't quite understand that appointments in the surgery are such a small part of being a GP, and that it is a pretty gruelling job at times. Maybe I am just being protective over my dad as I can see him falling apart in front of me.

Does anyone agree or AIBU?

I totally agree. There’s something about frontline public sector work that attracts unfair criticism (speaking as a teacher married to a police officer!!)

dh (chronic fatigue) and ds2 (mental health problems) have been totally failed by the NHS. It is difficult not to take that frustration out on the main point of contact which is our GP even though he has done his job by making referrals.

I agree OP. I know a couple of GPs but not well but you only have to read the news to know how resources have been depleted, recent reforms mean their job is just so many hours and so stressful. I think people think they get paid a fortune but actually for the hours they put in, the responsibility and the stress, and the years of training I don't think they do any more. And do what if they did, the money doesn't negate the shit parts of the job particularly. I get paid similar to a GP nowadays and I have a 9-5 relatively low stress job, I have a degree but people can do the job without one.

I had a friend who was a corporate lawyer, she was always moaning about the hours and the stress, but she works at one of the big city firms and gets paid 150k or something. I was always a bit annoyed hearing her moan as her particular job is choice and she could always move into a smaller regional firm and take a pay cut for a lot leas stress (but she would miss the money too much). She did eventually move to a lower stress job for for similar pay. When you're a doctor all the specialisms are understaffed and underpaid in my opinion and its not easy to switch, practically or because you're letting people down. And for many people it's a vocation. Its not easy to go part time or have a career change or just take the 'I'm paid for 8 hours a day and that's all I'll work' attitude. And changing to a lower stress shorter hours version isnt really possible

In my GP surgery in central London there are seven GPS, mostly quite young. I feel quite sorry for them because I have the impression that they've gone into medicine to please their parents

That is a very real issue with some families/communities. My son went to a highly ranked state grammar school and told me of many of his class mates who has no interest in a GP/doctor career but were pressured into it by their parents and family. They're not going to be good doctors if they're not interested and don't want to do it. Yet the pressure and expectations from their family gives them no choice.

It used to be a much more relaxed experience going to visit your GP, appointments were more readily available and they had time for their patients.

I understand the regime has changed and they have a lot more on their plate than they used to have.

Last time I saw my GP, he looked shocking and said he'd gone part time but his workload hadn't dropped. There is no wonder recruiting is a problem.

I realise OP.
GPs are amazing superheroes doing the hardest job.
Massive thank you to all GPs.

It's not just about appointments, then there's the paperwork. PIP and DLA forms, insurance forms, DVLA forms, patients requesting To Whom It May Concern letters, PIP and DLA appeal letters, letters for University, letters for the Home Office and that is without hospital referral letters which are top priority.

@Viviennemary

Gp's earn a very high salary. If the workload is too much then they need to go down to three or four days.

It’s not that simple though. A lot of GPs are partners and own their business. They have to provide a service and this means covering the gaps when they can’t recruit. GPs are in short supply.

I was a Practice Manager for many years and worked with a lot of GPs who waited several years to drop their hours because they couldn’t recruit to fill the time.

The U.K. has a real problem with people earning reasonable salaries. It's a kind of weird snobbery or something.

YANBU OP.

I understand the regime has changed and they have a lot more on their plate than they used to have.

Not sure that's true. It depends how far back you go. Certainly in the 60s/70s, your local "one man" GP practice was basically on call 24/7, often having to attend local emergencies, traffic accidents, difficult births, etc. as there was no one else. Some even did shifts at their local hospitals (in the days when there were local hospitals). Some even had cottage hospitals as part of their surgery. Bigger practices may have had 2 or 3 GPs which would have been easier as they could take turns doing the out of hours cover. Retired GPs would usually provide locum cover for holidays etc.

It was the 90s when GPs started merging to create bigger practices, which spread the load. Then in more recent times, those larger practices merged to create "super practices" sometimes covering an entire town.

We've come a long way from 24/7 expectations. Especially with Blair's new GP contract which enabled GPs to opt out completely. Add that to the proliferation of part time GPs, many of whom seem to work only 1 or 2 days per week, or even less (we have one at our practice who only does one morning per week). It's no wonder GPs are busy - the workload is being squeezed into far too few people working far too little hours for the work that needs doing.

With any job though surely, if you don't find it fulfilling anymore, look for another role. Doesn't matter if you are a doctor or a chef etc if it's making you stressed change.

It's not just about appointments, then there's the paperwork. PIP and DLA forms, insurance forms, DVLA forms, patients requesting To Whom It May Concern letters, PIP and DLA appeal letters, letters for University, letters for the Home Office and that is without hospital referral letters which are top priority.

But a lot of those "extras" are chargeable, so shouldn't really be done during normal "NHS" hours anyway should they? Things like insurance claim letters and life insurance health checks should be done in the GP's own time if they're charging for them over and above the NHS funding.

I think most people are understanding.

I totally agree, no wonder there is a shortage of GP’s, very difficult job.

Trying to get a GP apt at my practice (before covid) was like trying to get an audience with the Pope. ....but of course this is due to how the practise runs rather than the GPs themselves. All the ones I found helpful left (some moved overseas) and some of the more condescending ones are left. Thankfully I'm not often ill.
I know one GP vaguely. I've no idea what hours he works in the surgery, but he lives a mile away from his work and has about 12 weeks holiday per year so I guess there is some compensation for the stress.

It's the minority giving GPs a bad name. And ime receptionists can play a major part in this. There are 3 GPs at my practice, and I've made a complaint about one twice.
The first occasion I was 17, and on the contraceptive pill. I didn't have a bleed between taking packets twice. Pregnancy test was negative. The pill pack advised to seek medical advice. I went to see the doctor and I was reduced to tears when I was told off for wasting his time. I complained and was sent an a4 piece of paper back that was bullet pointed with reasons as to why he was right and he was wrong. Looking back I don't think this was handled well at all, I had no response from the practice manager and I don't think the bullet points were appropriate.
10 years later I go to see him due to bad morning sickness when I was pregnant. I'm given a prescription and told to come back to see him if I need any more. 4 weeks later I'm running out, can't get an appointment so I agree to a telephone appointment and I'm given a time by the receptionist that he will call me. 20 minutes after that time I call the surgery and I'm told they wouldn't have given me a time as telephone appointments are done at the end of clinic. I worked in a telephone based role so I can't do any work whilst I'm waiting for this call. I'm accused of being a liar, that the receptionist didn't give me a time and I'm making it up. Luckily when I made the appointment I called from my work phone, calls are recorded so I sent this on to the practice manager when I made my complaint. The cow on receptionist has to undergo further training. How many other people did she accuse of lying? She was only caught out as the call was recorded. Anyway I finally speak to the doctor and he tells me off again as he said I didn't need an appointment and I could've done a repeat prescription request!!! He told me to come back to him if I needed more. I don't see him anymore.
I nearly forgot, my parents have made a complaint about the same doctor. My mum had depression to do with her work, she went to see him and he refused to help her. He wouldn't sign her off work, he wouldn't prescribe any medication and he wouldn't give any advice on what other help is out there. Instead he told her to hand her notice in. She wasn't eating or sleeping. An hour after my dad contacted the practice manager with a complaint she had a call of reception asking her to pop in to collect a prescription and a sick note.
He's an arsehole. The other 2 GPs are lovely though so I definitely don't think all GPs are the same! Only thing is with the one is he always runs behind with appointments, the last few times I've been the patient before me leaves and I'm not called through for another 5 mins. I think the system needs to change, if this 5 mins is spent typing up details of the appointment on the system or making referrals wouldn't it make sense for each doctor to have an admin assistant with them to do this so they can see more patients? I'm clueless though so maybe there is a reason this can't be done!

The answer is obviously to increase medical school places to increase the supply, especially seeing as so many GPs are now part timers.

Unfortunately, for years, the doctors' union objected to plans to increase the number of training places. Some would say that they wanted to keep it "elite" to maintain pay levels etc rather than have competition.

wouldn't it make sense for each doctor to have an admin assistant with them to do this so they can see more patients?

I don’t think many people would want an admin assistant knowing their personal medical problems and also this would be another cost for them.

Personally I don’t mind if they’re running late, it’s just the rudeness that bothers me. I have a friend in the same surgery as I am registered with and she won’t go by herself if she’s given an appointment with 2 of the doctors as she finds them so intimidating. I haven’t been to the GP for many years due to an awful experience. I have used telephone appointments but also have private healthcare now including a GP phone service because of how awful they made me feel. Luckily, I’ve had no issues with the private ones, but I shouldn’t have to feel lucky that doctors aren’t rude.

Perhaps he should do what many of our GPs have done, retire early and come back as a locum on much more money.

I agree it must be a tough job but they’re rewarded more than adequately.

YANBU.

DH is training to be a GP. He’d happily take a pay cut to work more normal hours but there’s no point as you just end up working full time but paid for part time anyway.

We’re only having the one child as a result as we know it’ll be me doing 90% of the parenting due to his job.

I think one of the things that makes the job so difficult is the fact that it involves always having to watch out for the needle in the haystack.

A hundred people might come in with stomach pain, 99 times it might be something like constipation and the hundredth time cancer. Having to always watch out for the zebras in a herd of horses, when often patients report similar symptoms. Needing to know the warning bells for every dangerous condition under the sun, and differentiate quickly between the person who’s just got a mild UTI and the person with bladder cancer.

Add to that the fact most patients aren’t great at discussing and outlining their concerns in a straightforward way (embarrassment is a big thing, it can take ages to get to the bottom of what’s brought someone into the appointment if it’s related to their genitals, sometimes they’ll talk about something else then throw in the real problem on their way out the door) and with accurate terminology, making it a real job to actually ascertain what the problem is.

Ten minutes for someone to walk to your room, sit down, explain the problem, be questioned, rule things out, decide on a treatment and way forward, write the notes and referrals and then onto the next person. Often patients have waited so long for an appointment they sit down and want to spill their life story and get quite angry if the doctor tries to get to the point. Add in dealing with lots of mental health issues each day... and the threat of litigation. Not a job I’d do even if it paid millions.

I don't know of any GPs who work full time anymore. Certainly, none at our local surgery do.

Thing is - there's bad and good and indifferent GPs as there are in any other profession

My point is that I am sure the work is hard. Very hard. But they are paid well.

Lots of jobs/careers are very hard work and stressful - and people in those jobs are paid way less than GPs

I think GPs are remunerated well and if they don't like the stress and hard work they could try working in a different career

I have had too many poor GPs and no really good GPs to have a lot of sympathy.

My local practice was on Notice to Improve for a while. Mostly down to poor management of patients on powerful medication (like warfarin which I am on). How was that resolved? By me having to send them my blood test results which I could clearly see were coming through into my records from the hospital path lab.