to think that people don't realise how tough it is being a GP?

[naima99]

My dad is a GP. He used to love his job, got home at a reasonable time and had more time to spend with his patients.

Now, he regularly gets to work at 7am and leaves at 9:30pm. He has no time for lunch a lot of the time. He hates that he doesn't have the time he used to have for his patients. He gets tonnes of abuse when he's running late but isn't allowed to say that he's late because his last patient was having a suspected heart attack in front of him, or that he had a child in front of him with undiagnosed diabetes whose life was in danger etc. He's lost so many staff members because they're all fed up. He has no life outside of work because he is working on the weekends as they're so short staffed.

He knows so many doctors in the same position.

Now I'm not claiming that GPs are heroes or deserve any more than the rest of us, but I hear them being slated so so much.

People get angry that they can't get an appointment, that the GP only let them talk about two medical conditions in a 10 minute appointment, that google told them something different so the GP must be wrong which results in complaints or anger directed towards them. I was on a conference call the other day when my colleagues randomly started slaying GPs and them not seeing people face to face during covid saying they need to 'man up'

I don't know if IABU to think that a lot of people don't quite understand that appointments in the surgery are such a small part of being a GP, and that it is a pretty gruelling job at times. Maybe I am just being protective over my dad as I can see him falling apart in front of me.

Does anyone agree or AIBU?

Much, not all, of what GP’d do is not even medicine in any meaningful sense - so why are they paid like doctors?

Now you’re just being goady.

And I see no one has responded to my point about better working conditions for doctors leading to better patient care. Because apparently people would prefer to bicker endlessly about who has it harder than actually think about why improving things for public sector workers might be beneficial for society as a whole 🤷🏼‍♀️

@running

Let’s hope we privileged Drs live to see our gold plated pensions! Going but the current climate we will be working for a very long time and as I’m BAME who knows.

For someone married to a doctor you seem to really dislike our profession though.

I forgot to mention being directly being responsible for someone’s life meaning you can actually “kill” or “maim” and end up struck off which is another stress. I know there are other healthcare professions but ultimately it should and does come down to the most senior dr in terms of responsibility.

And to those who replied to my post I really meant a low paid public service roles- most accountants I know (not many) earn far more than I do, I don’t know many in the legal profession.

@SpuriouserAndSpuriouser

Yes I agree. Definitely a goady one and she’s married to a dr too! LOL

I suspect GP shortages now are due to impending obsolescence. I can’t see primary care surviving in its current form, nor do I necessarily think it should, since both users and providers seem very unhappy with the system. I have lived abroad under a health system where you referred yourself to specialists. So-called family doctors were available for mundane stuff like contraceptives or advice on the specialism required. It shouldn’t take 10 years of training to basically allocate resources further up the chain. Much, not all, of what GP’d do is not even medicine in any meaningful sense - so why are they paid like doctors?

Fully agree with that. I think the GP system is outdated and no longer fit for purpose. It's a relic of decades ago when the GP literally did anything and everything, from attending road accidents and difficult births, to minor injury treatment. Their current "gatekeeping" role is an expensive, time consuming and bureaucratic nonsense. People don't need "gatekeeping" to access other NHS treatments such as opticians and dentists, so why do they need a referral for physiotherapy or podiatry or a hearing aid. It's madness. Opticians and dentists manage to sort out the wheat from the chaff, check eligibility for NHS treatment, and can refer to consultants for serious/complicated issues. Same with pharmacists that are now offering traditional GP surgery services more than ever, such as flu jabs etc. You could convert GP surgeries into minor injury units doing minor treatments, blood tests, etc., and re-direct to other depts such as podiatry without GP involvement. Alongside all that you have a service concentrating on people with long term, complicated, but pretty routine issues, such as elderly, diabetics, etc - those who need regular intervention - whether that is best served by GPs is something for the medical profession to decide, or whether you could have specially trained nurse practitioners specialising in long term/chronic conditions for those patients needing long term care.

most accountants I know (not many) earn far more than I do

National earnings tables and recruitment consultants show bog standard qualified accountants are typically on around £50k per year.

Specialists/partners are on more of course, and also big City firms pay more for the tiny percentage of top earners.

But plenty of adverts for qualified/experienced accountants in the £40-£50k range out in small regional firms.

@kazzyhoward

Thanks interesting

My friend funnily does a lot of freelance work for drs perhaps that’s why and also works for a top firm. We don’t discuss pay but from what I understand she is on at least 70k.

I do think people wrongly assume that everyone in the private sector is a banker, lawyer or accountant. Even the ones that have those jobs are not all on high 6 figure salaries.

My friend funnily does a lot of freelance work for drs perhaps that’s why and also works for a top firm. We don’t discuss pay but from what I understand she is on at least 70k.

Accountancy for GPs, dentists, etc is very lucrative as it's specialist work that your bog standard accountant is unlikely to be able to do, hence higher charges and therefore higher wages, because of aspects such as the pension scheme tax traps as very few people outside the medical profession would have a pension fund value that breaches the limits, so most bog standard accountants will never come across that scenario with their typical client base of builders, freelancers, hairdressers, shop owners, etc.

But someone non-medical points out how ridiculous that is, it’s “goady”?

I’m a doctor actually, but thanks for making the assumption that I don’t know what I’m talking about. And I think that insinuating that GP isn’t medicine is goady, it comes across as if you are just trying to get a rise out of people. Clearly there are examples of GPs being used for non-medical things, but to say that the majority of what they do isn’t medicine is ridiculous and shows a lack of understanding about what the job entails.

There's a huge national shortage of GP's thanks to the conservative government treating them like garbage for the last 8 years

If you pay public sector workers enough that they can live very comfortably on a part time salary, you have effectively trained half a worker and will have to train two

RunningAwaywiththeCircus

I don't know why you feel the need to be so snarky, I simply misinterpreted part of what you wrote. Though if you can't see what's goady about saying that GPs shouldn't be paid like doctors because what they do isn't real medicine then I give up.

Ok, leaving aside the GP/not real medicine thing because we are clearly not going to see eye to eye on that.

I agree that there are loads of good things about working in medicine, and plenty of other professions have it just as hard. That doesn’t take away from the fact that working as a doctor can be exhausting and soul-destroying and ultimately it’s the patients who suffer when things don’t run optimally. There are so many ways in which things could be changed, even slightly, which would improve morale. I’m not talking about pay increases (though that would be nice) but even just getting my rota more than a couple of weeks in advance would be great. And I feel like I’m repeating myself but as well as making our lives better, there’s pretty convincing research showing that well-supported and well-rested doctors have better patient outcomes than stressed, overworked, exhausted doctors. Then beyond medicine, I’m sure that improving working conditions for teachers would improve things for their pupils, for example. That is the point I am trying to make.

It's a tough job and there's a lot of misconceptions. DH is a GP - works 8am-7pm in practice 4 days a week and then 1 day admin. Brings home £4k a month so £70,000p/a. He did 5 years uni, 5 years professional training and still sits exams for post grad diplomas having been a GP for over 20 years now.
You do it as a vocation, certainly not for the money.

I have many friends who are GP’s or trainee GP’s and it requires a lengthy amount of training to get to GP status. These people will often drop to P/T once in a good GP practice as they have suffered years of endless nightshifts, on calls and weekends as junior doctors. People are always quick to blame GP’s I totally agree. I for one am glad to have them.

36 patients a day who’s own health problem is the most important thing to them. You have 10 minutes to read their entire history, get them in (now need time for PPE donning, and cleaning the room after they have left), figure out what’s going on, make a plan with the patient, make sure the patient understands your plan (not a given), prescribe, document, write referrals, send referral, request bloods, and deal with the “just another thing” on the way out where the patient reveals they were abused age 15 and today is the day to share it. Then the poster up thread asks why GPs can’t run to time in this country?! I have 3000 patients who have me as my named GP. True that 1% of them take up 90% of my slots without being willing or able (due to increasing poverty and lack of social support) to change their lifestyles to improve their physical and mental health.
It’s tiring. I work part time as a GP, but also work in the extended access clinics in my borough, the out of hours service, and a&e - please don’t assume that because your GP is not stationed within your GP practice 24/7 that they are sitting around drinking margaritas.
Never mind now I am the battering ram for anyone who is upset about lockdown, wants me to “write a letter” (for anything from being able to visit friends, to not wear a mask on the tube, to having extended furlough for absolutely no reason), or generally wants to take their frustrations about the entire healthcare system out on me.
I am one person and I can only take so many people’s personal stories without breaking.
“We love the NHS” refrain didn’t last long did it.

We love the NHS refrain didn’t last long did it

^ This. Totally agree.

My OH was a GP. In the end the stress got to him and he left the practice at age 42 and made his living from doing locums and freelance surgeries. He made a good living from that without the endless admin and practice organisation responsibilities that took up so much time - and tried his patience.

No I really do value the NHS, that hasn't changed. It doesn't mean we can't exercise critical thinking skills.

You value the NHS with no regard to the humans who work within the service? Telling people day in and day out that they are doing a terrible job, but that you value the system which treats their staff that way is so incredibly demoralising. People make the NHS - not just doctors. Think about how your words affect others.