Fathers Day Expectation, hypocrisy?

[ShamanYou]

NB: I'm male and have NC as likely very identifiable. Long-term poster.

I have two adult children - 24 and 20. The eldest lives abroad.

I have been very low contact with my parents for quite time, perhaps three years, due to systematic extensive emotional abuse. Mother is a narcissist and father her enabler.

I see Father's Day (and Mother's Day) as a celebration of upbringing and a way to say thank you. I had zero intention of buying a card but my wife and DD(20) badgered me continually until I gave in yesterday.

I received nothing from either of my children - the eldest is somewhat understandable due to shitty postage. Younger child lives a mile away from us, and no reason given to either me or my wife.

I was very upset about it last night and am despondent.

My DW says I'm hypocritical for not wanting to buy my father anything but then complain when my children don't bother.

**NOT

What happens a few times every month?

DW pushing me relentlessly to do things. I have bouts of excruciating pain and take a painkiller three times more powerful than morphine yet if I'm having a "pain day" I will still get pushed, pain the next day is so bad the painkiller doesn't even take the edge off it.

I would also looking into some proper therapy if you haven't done so already, you marriage sounds highly co-dependent, and given your health problems and childhood, you would benefit from help and professional support in my view.

I think that there's nothing wrong with nicely asking the child (who badgered you to send your father a card), "why did you insist I sent grandad one, when you didn't send me one?!"

www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826/ref=sr_1_1?hvlocphy=9045578&hvnetw=g&keywords=toxic+parents+book&hvadid=259191283360&qid=1592814035&dchild=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvvn3xP6U6gIVlYBQBh2ZrwD0EAAYASAAEgK7jvD_BwE&hydadcr=11864_1766789&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&hvtargid=kwd-302442362545&adgrpid=52136689334&hvrand=9573661768369351024&sr=8-1

You could also order this book, it was incredibly helpful to me.

Did you not even get a call/message from either of them?

I think that your wife & daughter were wrong to coerce you to send a card.

I cannot understand why they aren't supporting you.

As for your daughter insisting you send a card & then not bothering to, that's very hurtful.

On your pain days you could say 'I am not discussing this with you today, I am focusing on getting through the pain. Lets talk about it when I am feeling better'

Would she respect that kind of response and back off? What is she asking you to do?

I don’t have a great relationship with my father and order a card and bottle of something to be delivered. Covid 19 has spared me the ordeal of visiting and playing happy families. I still called him yesterday and let him whinge down the phone at me for 45 minutes. Because it’s Father’s Day. And despite our obvious differences and resentment over the years, he is my father.
I’m so shocked you say you have an excellent relationship with both children and yet neither contacted you yesterday.
I think your only option is to discuss this with them. It doesn’t have to be confrontational. You could just say you were hurt you didn’t hear from them, given the occasion. Otherwise it will fester under the surface for months and you’ll drive yourself to distraction thinking of all the reasons why you didn’t hear from them.

Did you struggle when they were young op?

@pigeon999

From when DD was five medical conditions started popping up so things became progressively more difficult. I am now bedbound every day, I'm just grateful DD was in high school as it was easier to explain.

My children don't know the full details of my childhood, even my wife doesn't. It's the exact same with my rape, which caused "normal" PTSD.

@ShamanYou

What happens a few times every month?

DW pushing me relentlessly to do things. I have bouts of excruciating pain and take a painkiller three times more powerful than morphine yet if I'm having a "pain day" I will still get pushed, pain the next day is so bad the painkiller doesn't even take the edge off it.

On the surface, this is really concerning. It may be that she is helping you stay active and engaged in the world, it may be that she is abusively putting her needs and preferences ahead of yours. It's possibly somewhere between the two. We can't tell.

You may need some advice/counselling about managing relationships.

But one issue at a time. Ask your daughter why she pushed you to send a card. Take it from there.

Have you been particularly unwell with depression in recent months?

It's quite stable thanks to a medication change and I have diazepam for anxiety and zopiclone.

I cannot imagine discussing with my child, whether I would be sending my dad a card. Your child, even when adult, doesn't get to dictate the relationship you have with your parent.

I wonder if during the conversation your DD got the message that you don't want to celebrate fathers day/ it's a painful occasion/ what matters is long term relationship and not a silly card/ it's a hallmark day / you struggle thinking about fatherhood and actually decided that it was best and more caring NOT to send you a card.

I cannot say grow a pair... you stated you were a ‘male’

Er, what?

This misogynistic phrase is typically said to men to mean "stop acting like a woman", implying weakness and submission that isn't characteristic of male stereotypes.

Yes, people often say it to women too nowadays (which doesn't make it any less misogynistic - although they may be suggesting that female stereotypes should include strength and assertiveness, they are also perpetuating the sexist stereotype that these are typically male traits and that acting more 'manly' is what's required).

In any case, whether or not the recipient of the comment has literal testicles shouldn't be your concern with using this phrase!

Hi OP

I think your wife pushing you to do something unhealthy and damaging is the issue here. Either she doesn't know the extent of what you went through as a child in which case maybe if you are able to you could tell her (unless of course it's too painful to discuss or your therapist advised not to etc). Or she knows and doesn't care which is awful.

You sound very compromised by your health and by those around you, do you have support in place?

You sound very vulnerable given you can't always even get out of bed, and the fact you are so highly medicated means you won't always have capacity to deal with the demands of others. Ask your GP to put you in touch with some professional support op.

@pigeon999

I have that book, also I find "Complex PTSD - Pete Walker" and "Childhood Disrupted - Donna Jackson Nazakawa" extremely good. I've read the latter so many times. I've posted on the "Stately Homes" threads about my shit childhood over the years, it's an utter clusterfuck.

OP, if they usually send cards, could it be that there are things going on in your DC's lives that are causing stresses? Could there be things you're not aware of going on for them?

I didn't send my DF a card this year because things are particularly shit atm (I did call him). Also, I probably would have made it more of a priority if he cared about that stuff (I would have for DM as she attaches a great deal of emotional significance to it).

You sound very compromised by your health and by those around you, do you have support in place?

No support, I'm currently waiting for therapy and been told it could be February thanks to COVID-19.

Well relationships work both ways, so perhaps a discussion needs to be had about celebrations in general and everyone should agree the way forward. If no one is doing cards etc anymore that should extend to your children and their special days as well. They are adults and very capable of sending a card! Now is a chance to bring it up.

Your adult dc need to decide what kind of relationship they want - close and loving where everyone is remembered on special days. Or a looser arrangement that also extends to their specials days and times of the year. It has to work both ways. Not you doing everything for them, and very little or nothing coming back. Anything else will breed resentment.

When we have significant need for support, that can bleed into people giving us less agency. The support network around older people, and those with disabilities, can easily tip over into control. It's unintentional, and well meaning, but crosses boundaries.

MiL has significant health needs and is at times very dependent on FiL. As a result he tends to be chief decision maker. It's a fine line- he is after all the one who has to pick up the pieces if her plans don't pan out.

Do you think your wife and daughter may be falling into this habit?

Whatever, you must talk to your DD to understand what's going on.

you need to have a quick chat with your DCs about what your relationship is and where you place importance and where they place it. You could say, for example "surprised you didn't send me a card - especially, DD, since you spent so much time persuading me to send one to my dad when we don't have the same relationship that you and i have"

and take it from there. We have grown up DC and on Mother's day they said - "sorry, we're shit, we knew about it and didn't do anything" and then when Father's day came said "sorry, we're shit we did nothing for mum and so we're doing nothing for you"

I have said to them that i don't find that attitude acceptable given that for the last 20 odd years they have either got a card or made one. But that if they want to re-evaluate how we do things, that's fine. But the expectations are on both sides so don't expect anyone to jump when you need a lift somewhere or a loan of cash.

We'll see what happens next year.

I admit, that I reminded my adult DS, who live alone about Father's Day.
I would suggest your DW should remind them, but I am also aware that this probably comes across as sexist.
I think when DC are older these events seem to have lost significance.

i don't see how it would be sexist for DW to remind DCs about father's day, it wouldn't be sexist for a husband to remind DCs about mother's day.

It would be odd if you had to say "it's Father's day this week don't forget to send me a card"

OP - you have a DW problem too, it seems.

Dude, it's a made up day.

My child made something for her dad at school. I wouldn't have done anything otherwise. She said 'happy fathers' day' to him yesterday morning, he replied with 'we don't need a day for that, I love being your dad every day', and that was that.

He does bugger all for mothers' day either. This year I got a hastily drawn picture.

Regarding the cards to you, children often model the behaviour they see. If your family have never made anything special about Father's Day by sending cards etc, they may see it as something that is not important to you? We don't celebrate my dad's birthday much as he seems to find any fuss a bit embarrassing. If it's something that would mean something to you, you may need to have a flat out conversation with them about it.
I'm sorry, op, it is hard to feel forgotten on these days.