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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Twat colleague - AIBU to ask for help in composing a response?

127 replies

DuineArBith · 20/06/2020 10:23

Dealing with a colleague who cannot admit he is ever wrong and hates being called out, especially by women. He also really fancies his expertise in employment law and practice, without real justification.

He's now wasting his time and mine arguing (through emails copied to various other colleagues and managers) about a total non-issue which doesn't relate to employment law, but happens to relate to an area on which I have much more experience and knowledge than he has, and I also know that other people with experience in the area in question agree with me. I can't give the details, but a similar issue would be where, for instance, we were using dangerous machinery for which we are fully covered by manufacturers' guarantees and insurance and he wanted me to make modifications ostensibly for safety purposes which would potentially invalidate those.

I've tried explaining politely that it isn't an issue and why, and I've explained the perfectly adequate precautions we do take in this regard, which I hoped would bring this ridiculous issue to an end. However, of course he cannot accept that because, God forbid, it might involve admitting he got something wrong. His latest email responds to that disagreeing and saying he thinks I should do what he says

My first reactions which, probably fortunately, I suppressed, were to respond with "Go away, little boy, and stop wasting my time" and moving on to "I could do that, of course, if I wanted to invite disaster." I want to signal to others what a twat he is without being overtly rude, not least because some of my colleagues buy into his self-promotion and still think the sun shines out of his arsehole,

Currently thoughts are something along the lines of:

Well, I could do that. However, as a result of (a) my long experience of (relevant area of expertise) and (b) discussions with X, Y and Z who I know have taken specialist advice on the issue, I know that it would be very unwise and potentially dangerous. So, no, I won't be doing it.

Too much?

OP posts:
Nanny0gg · 20/06/2020 11:31

Is he of equal standing to you? Who do you both report to? Is his manager aware he's interfering outside his area of expertise?

7Worfs · 20/06/2020 11:34

Final email - polite and short-

“Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately it won’t work as it will invalidate the manufacturers insurance. If you’d like me to explain in more detail, do give me a call”

And don’t reply to ANYTHING he might send as a reply.

Crinkle77 · 20/06/2020 11:34

@LouiseTrees

Have a male colleague send your factual response composed as stated above rather than you sending it. If his problem is sexism then this should stop the conversation. Then have the same male colleague make the bosses aware of what you did and say you felt it was the only way to stop the conversation and they need to take action.
Err what? She shouldn't defer to a male colleague. OK would totally be undermining her position.
LockdownBlues · 20/06/2020 11:39

Have a male colleague send your factual response composed as stated above rather than you sending it. If his problem is sexism then this should stop the conversation.

What the fuck? If his problem is sexism then that is his problem. IF his problem is sexism, then pretending that you haven't come up with the idea but a man could is bloody feeding that problem!!

Reply as others have suggested above, factually, calmly, shut the conversation down and action it. Unless he's superior to you and can force you to do the 'wrong' thing?

bubbleup · 20/06/2020 11:40

"Go away little boy"? Confused

Really? You say you're right and he's wasting your time but we really don't know who is right do we? We do know that you probably look as ridiculous as he does though fighting over email and copying various managers in. Embarrassing

DuineArBith · 20/06/2020 11:41

@livefornaps

No stay factual. Don't brandish, if you do he will just dig his heels in. Just state, "we are covered because of x y z".
The trouble with that is that I would have to write an essay to explain why we are covered. Life is too short, and he'd just take that as an opportunity to get into further debate.
OP posts:
LillianBland · 20/06/2020 11:42

@bubbleup

"Go away little boy"? Confused

Really? You say you're right and he's wasting your time but we really don't know who is right do we? We do know that you probably look as ridiculous as he does though fighting over email and copying various managers in. Embarrassing

I imagine the expert in these matters, is right. That would be the OP, for any avoidance of doubt. 🙄
weaselwords · 20/06/2020 11:43

I have a similar situation but luckily (?) for me they are junior to me.

Don’t be pleasant and factual, pull out your experience and ram it down his throat and make sure everyone understands just how dangerous he is. Other people are believing his bullshit and will ignore your well reasoned arguments. Go nuclear and stamp it out now. Professionally, of course.

DuineArBith · 20/06/2020 11:44

@Karwomannghia

How come no one else has got involved if he’s sending it higher up as well? Surely if there’s a definite problem to what he’s suggesting, others can see it and reply too?
Because they buy into his picture of himself. He does have some expertise in his own area, he just won't accept that he isn't omniscient. That is in part why I want shake their faith in him, if only a little.
OP posts:
DuineArBith · 20/06/2020 11:46

@bubbleup

"Go away little boy"? Confused

Really? You say you're right and he's wasting your time but we really don't know who is right do we? We do know that you probably look as ridiculous as he does though fighting over email and copying various managers in. Embarrassing

Trust me, I do know I am right. If you had bothered to read my OP, you can see that I haven't been fighting: my response has been a very polite explanation of why this isn't an issue, and it wasn't me who dragged other people into the discussion.

Are you a little embarrassed that you've gone into the attack without checking basic facts?

OP posts:
DoesJeffKnow · 20/06/2020 11:53

How about:

I can see why an individual such as yourself with no qualifications or experience in this area would believe your way could work.

However, anyone with my (detail) qualifications and X years of experience would tell you that you are incorrect, as per my earlier responses.

As a lay person, you may not understand this, but I implore you to trust the expert in this case as this exchange of emails is a waste of both our time.

I now consider this matter closed.

Almostfifty · 20/06/2020 11:55

I'd just say that you've made the decision, and it isn't up for debate.

pictish · 20/06/2020 11:59

Jeff no...that is an arrogant response. There’s no need for two dicks in this scenario.

BlueJava · 20/06/2020 12:03

Something I have found effective in the past is to cut the email and don't respond - because trust me if management are reading your exchange my money is on them thinking you are both twats. I'd then book a face to face meeting with him and discuss it in a calm and factual way. People sometimes hide behind email, but in a face to face meeting it changes the dynamic - especially when you call the meeting.

VettiyaIruken · 20/06/2020 12:04

Do you need his agreement in order to proceed?

If not, I'd say
Thank you for your emails, the contents of which I have noted. I have made the decision to proceed with my plan, which is the most appropriate course of action. This matter is now closed but I thank you for your input.

StopMakingATitOfUrselfNPissOff · 20/06/2020 12:10

What would happen if you stopped responding?

Sometimes, no response is the best response.

If he chases it in a week, just say something like 'we stuck with xxxx, all resolved now. Thanks for your input' type thing

SummerWhisper · 20/06/2020 12:10

"Thank you for your emails on this matter. As this is my specific knowledge-base, I am very clear as to why your suggestion shouldn't be adopted.

Best wishes"

Copy in your manager and in a separate email let your manager know that you are concerned about how much time Twat is wasting over this.

bubbleup · 20/06/2020 12:11

"Are you a little embarrassed that you've gone into the attack without checking basic facts?" Grin

No. Just because an anonymous poster on MN says they are right it doesn't mean they are, unlike others I'm not going to blindly believe you are an expert.

The fact he still disagrees and these managers he has copied in don't seem to have taken either side suggests it isn't as clear cut and obvious as you're making out.

Other colleagues like him but he's rubbed you up the wrong way so now he's a "twat" and a "little boy" and you don't know how to reply to him.

Clearly someone with authority needs to make a decision as neither of you are able to

thedancingbear · 20/06/2020 12:13

What plenty of others have said. Be clear, professional, factual and unemotional. If you're obviously in the right then the other people on the email chain will be able to see that he's being a twat, and you could end up coming out of it quite well, however frustrating it must feel at the moment.

StatementKnickers · 20/06/2020 12:14

Do you even need to reply? I'm sure his twattiness is already apparent to everyone on the email thread.

If you need to reply for the benefit of others, I'd go with:

Dear Twat,
Thank you for your thoughts.
Regards,
OP

thedancingbear · 20/06/2020 12:16

^I can see why an individual such as yourself with no qualifications or experience in this area would believe your way could work.

However, anyone with my (detail) qualifications and X years of experience would tell you that you are incorrect, as per my earlier responses.

As a lay person, you may not understand this, but I implore you to trust the expert in this case as this exchange of emails is a waste of both our time.^

Don't send this; I understand the temptation but it's pretty unprofessional. The first para would get you in trouble with HR in my place (however unfairly).

TSSDNCOP · 20/06/2020 12:16

Having fully considered your comments and concerns, and after further discussion with X based on previous experience, the final decision is to do Y which will begin on [date].

Laters,
OP

TSSDNCOP · 20/06/2020 12:19

I do tend to agree with the PP, are you absolutely sure he doesn't have a point? The fact he's laboured it, and copied other seniors, would make me kick my own tyres one last time.

BobbinThreadbare123 · 20/06/2020 12:19

I tend to just ignore this type of person. I'd not even bother replying. If he keeps emailing you about it and cc-ing in others, he is just going to make himself look even more of a pillock. Ignore, I say, especially if he doesn't have sign-off powers on this.

thedancingbear · 20/06/2020 12:19

All that said, OP, you do need to be fucking 100% sure you are right here, otherwise you're in the process of making a tit of yourself. Of course this place only works if we take the OP's posts at face value, but don't lose sight of the fact that the mirror thread may currently be unfolding on Pistonheads.