to think the Foreign Secretary / Deputy Prime Minister should know a little bit of the history about Take a knee

[chomalungma]

twitter.com/matthewchampion/status/1273534016570957824

No - it's not from Game of Thrones. Even though he said he didn't know where it came from, maybe it was Game of Thrones.

I know that Colin Kaepernick took a knee during NFL games and this led to massive repercussions with Trump getting involved.

I know now that there is more of a history with Martin Luther King - but it's the recent history I am more aware of.

I do know that it's not Game of Thrones though.

But this is the same guy who didn't know the importance of the Dover - Calais ferry crossing.

chomalungma it's not that we don't understand and need it explained to us. You can say "oh but it doesn't count as kneeling to your superior in this instance", but it doesn't matter. I won't kneel and nor will many people and I'll be annoyed if elected officials do so on my behalf.

@MaddieElla

Also agree with him.

Seeing the police take the knee at the protests chilled me.

I agree

@slartibarti

Many white people don't give a damn about the system racism, which you cannot separate from taking a knee, but they would never vocalise this except with like minded ppl.

I won't take a knee but would be happy to give a black power salute instead.
Am I still a racist?

I won't take a knee or give a black power salute. I will stand up against any racist or racism that I witness. Am I a racist?

I'd like to hear ways we can actually improve things too. All I've heard so far is people telling me that the important thing is to admit that it's all my fault, and now this nonsense.

At the very basic level he also shouldn’t have tried to make light of it. That was awful.

Also wtf is it to do with GoT? I’m a big fan, and it was about the last thing I thought of. In GoT it’s “bend the knee” anyway, and it’s not really a huge part of the story - at least not until towards the end.

I was fully aware of the history and I wouldn’t call myself an expert on any of the issues. I would expect someone in Raab’s position to be.

Isn't the very point that it is a respectful gesture and a subservient gesture

Respectful to the national anthem when it was being played

And subservient to make the flipping point that certain communities are treated as subservient

I do find “taking the knee” to be very powerful as a protest though.

@midgebabe yes I think the fact that it is a respectful gesture - and so it was respectful to the anthem whilst making the protest felt - was the reason this was used.

Colin Kaepernick wasn’t kneeling for the national anthem, he was kneeling before the flag. Completely different thing. The flag here has a completely different place in society than flags do in Europe, for example. Google the flag code of the United States for sone interesting reading. Cannot let any part of a flag touch the ground, cannot fly the flag in darkness or bad weather, flag cannot be in a state of disrepair, old flags must be disposed of respectfully, flags must be folded in a certain way, etc, etc, etc.

As we say here, anyone who kneels before the flag has obviously never been handed a folded one.

Once you understand the role and importance of the flag in this culture (not saying it’s right or wrong how it’s done here, it’s just different to what you are used to in the UK and something I had to get used to when I chose to live here), then you’ll understand the outrage it caused.

We are also forgetting that not everyone is a fan of BLM but care very much about racial injustice. BLM do not own this issue. Some of the hard left agenda leaves many very nervous about supporting them. Their position on trans rights, and bringing down the police force and capitalism may be an issue for any conservative for instance. I think this is much more complex than you are articulating so far in your posts op.

Completely agree with this.

Oh, OP, the irony.

Well done on doing exactly what you've just complained Raab did.

Take that two minutes and go Google genuflecting.

It's not two knees for 'religion'.

It is a sign of submission.

@BritWifeinUSA some of those drills do exist here as well - not touching the floor etc. The most high-profile example was the Buckingham Palace flag row after Diana died

It's not two knees for 'religion'

Submitting before God.

I don't think anyone expects DR to take the knee himself, but surely if you're a high profile politician appearing on a radio broadcast at a time when it's a significant part of a major global protest, you might have done some research so you can answer the question without sounding like an ignorant tit?

it's not that we don't understand and need it explained to us

I don't think Dominic Raab understood why people were kneeling.

@DippyAvocado

I don't think anyone expects DR to take the knee himself, but surely if you're a high profile politician appearing on a radio broadcast at a time when it's a significant part of a major global protest, you might have done some research so you can answer the question without sounding like an ignorant tit?

It seems some people have low expectations of their politicians awareness of global events.

I would have thought the Foreign Secretary would be aware though

@TheMarzipanDildo

I can’t believe this thread shock
Context is everything. Clearly this is a black power statement not a fucking show of subservience. It doesn’t really matter that the original taking of the knee happened in America because it means more than that now.
Some people seem to be quite wilfully thick on the subject of BLM.

Well said.

I couldn't agree more about the ignorance.

Of course it's a personal choice to take a knee, but his mention of GOT says it all. Of course he later tweets that he supports BLM...he has to portray that image, like everyone else.

It's asking to stand with us and show solidarity....by saying he'd only do it for the Queen and when he proposed...the inference is it's not something he's prepared to put a knee on the ground...because it's not that important to him.

He just came across as ignorant on the issue....

It seems some people have low expectations of their politicians awareness of global events.

Yes ....that's because those people are equally unaware and don't give really care.

I would have thought the Foreign Secretary would be aware though

You'd like to think so....but it's easier to bury your head in the sand and try to brush history under the rug.

This
Of course it's a personal choice to take a knee,

somewhat contradicts this doesn't it

by saying he'd only do it for the Queen and when he proposed...the inference is it's not something he's prepared to put a knee on the ground...because it's not that important to him.

I won't be kneeling with one knee or two to anyone or any cause. I'd curtsey to the Queen because she's earnt it. I think Raab is right and it seems a subservient action to me and not one of solidatiry.

I think Raab is right and it seems a subservient action to me and not one of solidatiry

So when people reference Colin Kaepernick, his actions and the reasons he did it, you think that subserviance and not solidiarity with his actions?

Hearhoovesthinkzebras

It's not a contradiction. Of course it's his choice, but his words speak volumes.

I would have thought the Foreign Secretary would be aware though

I think Raab is very aware of global events.
He was asked if he'd ever take a knee and he gave the least worst answer for political reasons.
If he said yes the media could spin this as criticism of Trump.
Also he'd want to avoid upsetting the "silent majority" of anti-knee-takers.

Also he'd want to avoid upsetting the "silent majority" of anti-knee-takers

I am not sure what to say about people who don't want to show their solidarity with people by joining in and taking a knee. Entirely their choice - but I do think it's a way of showing solidarity. There are other ways of course, and no doubt there are people who do take a knee but don't do anything else.

But then again, this country doesn't really surprise me anymore.