To think it's ironic about Niqab and face coverings

[IsntItIronicDontYouThink]

Just thought about this and how ironically, face coverings have become mandatory on public transports and it makes me think of Muslim women (Niqab wearing women specifically) who've had a hard time because of their face coverings to now find that everyone has to cover their faces (for different reasons yes but still ironic, isn't it?)

Googled to see if anyone else mentions this. Here's a piece I found about it (There's more but just picked this one).

www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2020/06/12/face-mask-compulsory-muslim-women-12838585/amp/

I agree Kitty

Western feminism often has a strange attitude towards Islam and the treatment of women in many Muslim cultures (as it differs)

Fear of being seen as being prejudiced I think drives this

Really no women wore the niqab pre Islam ?

So women were free to wear what they wanted before Islam

@WakeAndBake

Isn’t the point of the niqab modesty? If wearing one causes you to attract more male attention then that seems a bit counter productive.

Do you have any concept just how victim blaming your post is?

Niqabs seem more of a “look at meeeee” aggressive fashion statement

Would you say the sane about shirt skirts/ boob tubes?

Yes the sexism behind one is problematic but what's the solution?
Force women to touch and make physical contact with men against their will?

Why are you so defensive? Where did I even hint at the forcing women to have physical contact with someone they don't want to?

I just posted out the sexism and the fact that the two forms of handshake avoidance are completely different.

There are so many attempts on this thread to twist even the simplest of posts. Why is that?

pointed out sorry,

To more recently '' I want to face people and look at their faces and they look me in the face when they talk to me.''

Those type of comments (and they were plenty) are NOT okay, it shows an entitlement that is extremely odd it's the " I want to see your body therefore you should show it to me, if not I will think you are oppressed."

Body or face? Body, fair enough but the culture here is that we all look at each other’s faces during our day to day existence. Expecting and wanting to see someone’s face hardly seems like a big ask.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

*Yes the sexism behind one is problematic but what's the solution? Force women to touch and make physical contact with men against their will?*

Why are you so defensive? Where did I even hint at the forcing women to have physical contact with someone they don't want to?

I just posted out the sexism and the fact that the two forms of handshake avoidance are completely different.

There are so many attempts on this thread to twist even the simplest of posts. Why is that?

My answer wasn't agressive at all, I was GENUINELY asking, I even stated at the end of my answer that I wasn't accusing you of suggesting this, so the question might be: Why are you twisting my post into an accusation and attack when I purposefully said it wasn't one and was simply asking questions (to you or others who might hold the answer or have good hypothesis)?

I agree with your last question.

Would you say the sane about shirt skirts/ boob tubes?

Yes! Short skirts and boob tubes are definitely aggressive fashion statements, nothing wrong with that. If people want to wear big shapeless bags or ultra tight mini clothes then it is fine with me.

But I’m not going to pretend that the big shapeless bags don’t look ridiculous or that revealing clothes aren’t going to elicit some sort of reaction from other people

Did I say your reply was aggressive? I didn't. You twisted my reply. Again.

@WakeAndBake

To more recently '' I want to face people and look at their faces and they look me in the face when they talk to me.''

Those type of comments (and they were plenty) are NOT okay, it shows an entitlement that is extremely odd it's the " I want to see your body therefore you should show it to me, if not I will think you are oppressed."

Body or face? Body, fair enough but the culture here is that we all look at each other’s faces during our day to day existence. Expecting and wanting to see someone’s face hardly seems like a big ask.

The first comment I quoted (which doesn't appear in your quote) was about the body, the second one was about the face, but it is irrelevant which body part we are talking about.

One can have expectations and wishes regarding someone's body (or face) but they don't get to have them granted just because it's the norm or it's something they want.

And yes, asking a woman to do something she doesn't want to do (showing her face/body/hair) IS a big ask.

You can ask by all means, as long as you are willing to take no as an answer and accept that no gracefully.

(otherwise what's the difference with the men who are so against?)

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Did I say your reply was aggressive? I didn't. You twisted my reply. Again.

You said I was defensive, which means I responded in a defensive manner to your post which usually comes across as agressive.

I asked a series of questions, those were neither defensive nor agressive, they were just that...questions.

And yes, asking a woman to do something she doesn't want to do (showing her face/body/hair) IS a big ask.

Then I think we start to have problems if people don’t want to show their faces. How does it benefit everyone else living in the country to have a growing number of extremely religious people who shun a norm that 99.9999% of people follow?

How will the religious women fit into society, get jobs, friends, education etc when they set themselves apart? Is everyone else expected to just accept it? Are they bad if they don’t?

I would wear a hijab myself if it wasn't inappropriate and offensive or appropriation for a non-muslim. I'd wear a niqab if I could cover my nose (and it was okay for a non-muslim)

Perhaps in the UK, the niqab and other modesty attire is associated with Muslims. But in some regions in the MENA, it is simply a garment that women must wear in order to even appear in public. It doesn’t matter if you are Jewish or Christian (two barely tolerated religions), you will need to wear it in order to comply with local laws.

You can be beaten in Iran for not wearing hijab correctly, Muslim or not. Until recently, all women in Saudi Arabia, Muslim or not, had to wear abaya and headscarf when in public. Enslaved Yazidi girls were required to wear niqab under the ISIS regime even though they are not Muslim.

So, not really cultural appropriation is it? It’s more that it’s regarded inappropriate attire in a Western context, where seeing one’s face is considered highly important.

That's not what defensive means, but I won't go into that.

It's up to me to provide solutions to your problems.

Muslimah2020

You’d think the abundant sunshine would do something, but actually, vitamin D deficiency is very, very common in the Gulf. More so than in Europe.

My doctor has us all on supplements without even testing because she says it’s so common here.

Well lucky for you @wakeandbake I live abroad so no worries about you having to accept me. I own my own online business and work with people all across the globe with no issues. This is one of the very reasons I left the UK and won't be returning. I wouldn't want my children to be submitted to ignorance of others, and for this reason I encourage Muslims to move to Muslim countries where you are fully accepted rather than trying to fit into a "Multi cultural society" which claims to be a free country however if you aren't the same as the majority you are scrutinised. Just please when you come to our countries as a tourist, don't expect us to accept you in your attire and be sure to wear clothes that make you fit in with us, just as you expect us to do when we are in your country. (although I was born and raised in the UK so it is my country too, but I guess not, unless I'm like the rest of you right?)

@WakeAndBake

I don't wear niqab but my mum did (actually my dad tried to discourage her but she's very headstrong) and the amount of abuse she recieved from white men (it was always men)

Isn’t the point of the niqab modesty? If wearing one causes you to attract more male attention then that seems a bit counter productive.

Niqabs seem more of a “look at meeeee” aggressive fashion statement quite the opposite of modesty

So its a womans fault if a man abuses her?

"Then I think we start to have problems if people don’t want to show their faces. How does it benefit everyone else living in the country to have a growing number of extremely religious people who shun a norm that 99.9999% of people follow?

How will the religious women fit into society, get jobs, friends, education etc when they set themselves apart? Is everyone else expected to just accept it? Are they bad if they don’t?"

Lol the niqabi women I know are working professionals, degree educated & plenty of friends. They'll have roast dinners on Sun and chill in the evenings with Eastenders & Corrie like most people. This made me laugh 😂.

This is why the Atlantic Slave trade must be taught to each and every child in the UK. The superior, colonial, white saviour mindset still exists to this very day. According to you 0.0001% of women wear niqabs but you're not content until they dress like you. They'll be talking like you, eating what you eat, watching what you watch but the few things the 0.0001% hold dear to themselves in their religion makes you feel 'uncomfortable'. Get over yourself.

Ooooh I might even did out my mum's old niqab this week .

*dig

not up to me sorry, I seem unable to type today. WFH.

for this reason I encourage Muslims to move to Muslim countries where you are fully accepted rather than trying to fit into a "Multi cultural society" which claims to be a free country however if you aren't the same as the majority you are scrutinised. Just please when you come to our countries as a tourist, don't expect us to accept you in your attire and be sure to wear clothes that make you fit in with us, just as you expect us to do when we are in your country

It has never been otherwise in much of the MENA.

This is why the Atlantic Slave trade must be taught to each and every child in the UK

I’m not from the UK, but they should also be taught the slave trade was abolished in the UK fairly early, while in Saudi Arabia, it was not outlawed until 1962.

In living memory. You can see footage of slave markets on YouTube where black Africans were sold by Arab traders. And has re-emerged in Libya. Never really went away in Mauritius.

According to you 0.0001% of women wear niqabs but you're not content until they dress like you. They'll be talking like you, eating what you eat, watching what you watch but the few things the 0.0001% hold dear to themselves in their religion makes you feel 'uncomfortable'. Get over yourself

Living in a Western society may mean you have to give up certain cultural practices. Showing one’s face is a basic courtesy in Western countries. If you aren’t prepared to do so, perhaps the West is not the place for you.

I live in a Gulf country and, for instance, cannot eat or drink water at work during Ramadan. I can only eat at home, curtains drawn. It’s awful, but I have to do it.

I would love to go to the beach and not have to wear a burkini-like outfit. But I know that even a one-piece is a big no-no, so I have to do wear them so as to comply with local cultural sensitivities.

Niqabs seem more of a “look at meeeee” aggressive fashion statement quite the opposite of modesty

Wow! Some people could work for the news. The spin-aroo going on here to fit the intended narrative is amazing!

And today's headline: "Niqab is a look at meee aggressive fashion statement and the opposite of modesty". Coming up next...

But I’m not going to pretend that the big shapeless bags don’t look ridiculous

Says who? Your conditioning that clothes have to have a certain shape or fit to not look ridiculous (subjective btw) or something you naturally came up with when you were a baby?