To think it's ironic about Niqab and face coverings

[IsntItIronicDontYouThink]

Just thought about this and how ironically, face coverings have become mandatory on public transports and it makes me think of Muslim women (Niqab wearing women specifically) who've had a hard time because of their face coverings to now find that everyone has to cover their faces (for different reasons yes but still ironic, isn't it?)

Googled to see if anyone else mentions this. Here's a piece I found about it (There's more but just picked this one).

www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2020/06/12/face-mask-compulsory-muslim-women-12838585/amp/

And I actually see it much more patriarchal for women to uncover their beauty for men and live up to the standards of the media outside for men to see them, always worried about how they look and applying makeup and what they are wearing, rather than being protected from that and only allowing your husband and male family members to see your beauty. For me this makes me feel much more honorable and special than if I was to show myself to men I don't know. Why should they see my beauty?

I don’t define myself by my beauty when I walk around in the world. I don’t want to have to do that.

I am a human being who interacts with other humans. Full stop.

And I don’t go around living up to any media standards, or caring about anyone’s opinion of my beauty or lack of it. I don’t give it much thought.

I support people's choices as to what they wear - which is one reason I want face coverings on trains to be voluntary for all. I do not support bans on religious clothing but I do support the right of women to wear shorter clothes even if that upsets other women who want women covered up - sometimes I am the person with the fewest clothes on where I live and that being made different in my own land is interesting but as long as people don't stare or tell me to cover up that's fine. I want to be in a UK where parents can be totally nakmed at home and in their garden or always covered up; where they can have no school for children or Eton, musliam or catholic school, boarding or day - free choice in a liberal democracy where there is no right for people to stop freedom, where you can wear a Jesus and Mo T shirt even if is upsets someone and women can cove rup even if that offends women who want women to be as uncovered as they are. I don't want an England like Iran where when I went there for work I was forced to adopt certain clothing. i want an England as we now largely have it - a free England of choice where if someone is offended they can go and cry in a corner or get therapy but not stop the rights of others to say what they want.

And I am a human being that interacts with humans too. Full stop. I am just covered when I do.

And I am a human being that interacts with humans too. Full stop. I am just covered when I do

Does it restrict your interactions? More than men?

I was in a park once and noticed a fully covered lady breastfeeding her baby while dealing with a couple of older toddlers. I wanted to go over and chat, bit of solidarity and she was getting a few looks- breastfeeding does seem contrary to being covered, after all.

Except I couldn’t. We couldn’t have a conversation as i couldn’t see her lips, and i presumed as there were a couple of dads in the park she wouldn’t be able to lift her covering.

@Muslimah2020 when I walk around outside especially over this last while in the beautiful weather I enjoy the feel of the sun on my arms, the wind through my hair and breathing in the freshness of the air. When I see a nice top or dress or put on makeup I do it for myself not to ‘show my beauty’. I enjoy wearing nice clothes I enjoy walking around feeling comfortable and at peace with myself and my surroundings. I find the concept of ‘allowing’ people to see me. Plus why would you want to ‘show your beauty’ to your dad and brothers bit odd.

Gosh! Never seen such drivel in my life as some of the posts on this thread.

"This is what I do, what I like to do and I do it for me because I like it and I think it's better than what you do. You say you do what you do because you like it, you do it for yourself but I don't believe you.

See I do mine for myself but I state it to you you don't do yours for yourself. I know social conditioning has given me some of those things I now see as what I do for my self but I think those things are the best thing to do, they're better than what social conditioning has made you do for yourself.

Why do you do what you do? I could never do it, see I do this for myself, why don't you do what I do? You will feel better. Don't do what you do for yourself, I don't believe you do it for yourself anyway but for me, I do mine because it makes me happy and I expect you to believe that because what I do is better than what you do. What you do could never make me happy so I don't believe it makes you happy. I don't believe it can make anyone happy because I know it won't make me happy. So trust me and stop doing it".

I feel sorry for people!

Also myself and my husband are equals and in love. I am special to him because he loves me not because He’s the only man who sees me. His love makes me feel special not only meeting him see me. It’s sounds almost insecure to say you’re only close to god if you cover up and you’re only special to your husband if you cover up. It’s sad.

And I fully enjoy the sun and the breeze and the pool at home in my villa, or at friends houses or at family houses.

It's not wanting to show my beauty, it's that around my dad and brothers I can be uncovered. That's the point I was stating. Just as I can do that with all my female friends and family. My beauty is for myself and for my husband and that is how I like it. I wasn't judging others for how you live, I'm just stating I may not understand yet I respect your choices. I just wish the same without all the questions and assumptions that I'm forced to cover when I'm not. I have non Muslim friends, it has never affected our friendships. We laugh, enjoy and share just as anyone else and there is no judgement vice versa. So I wish that everyone could do the same. You don't need to understand the reasons why I choose to cover, and I don't need to understand the reasons that you don't. We just need to respect free will and others choices.

@Dancethereupontheshore now your just being plain rude.

@Muslimah2020 I admire your gentleness, graciousness and patience. I admire your faith, sense of modesty and your strongwill in standing for what you believe. I would wear a hijab myself if it wasn't inappropriate and offensive or appropriation for a non-muslim. I'd wear a niqab if I could cover my nose (and it was okay for a non-muslim). I can't at all for health reasons. I'm not religious and don't want to be but I cover myself because I like it. I like the feel of soft, cool fabric on my skin, not the hot sun. I would take walks with my blanket wrapped around me if I could but I settle for large scarves. That's how much I like to be wrapped in clothing. I admire muslim women who choose to do what they do. The free choice is what matters, whatever that is.

Just one general issue for those who cover up even when at home s the vitamin D issue. I got out in just knickers without suncream between April and October in the UK as you cannot get vit D as well from food or pills and I have only seen my GP once in 15 years. I am not saying it is connected but getting sun on bare skin (which of course you can do in private if muslim as much as if you are an atheist) is quite important. We used to have dreadful rickets too in the UK in children 100 years ago who didn't get out in the sun enough and lacked vitamins. Being bare as nature intended and free as we were as home sapiens for probably 200,000 years give or take an ice age and you cannot go far wrong. However I believe in freedom so I certianly won't be forcing everyone on to nudist beaches although I am a bit sick of paying such very very high taxes so that people who don't look after themselves and don't get enough vit D can get NHS treatment so I would like the NHS to be a lot stricter over vit D and people being healthy weights. By all means be 30 stone but ideally don't make me pay for the choices of those who choose to be that weight etc. let freedom prevail - which is a freedom to to be shackled by a huge big nanny state which is far too expensive.

@Muslimah2020 so ‘your beauty’ is for you, your husband, male members of your family and all women. So just not men for some unknown reason... do you think if my husband looked at you he would be overcome with lust at ‘your beauty’ and attack you? Or do you think you’re so beautiful that men can’t look at you or that if my husband looked at you you’re no longer special to your husband or your god? I’m glad you get to enjoy sunshine in the confines of your own home however.. it’s something I guess.

Thank you @IsntItIronicDontYouThink I really appreciate you saying that. And it's refreshing to hear that you can relate to the enjoyment of covering up. Thank you for your respect and open mindedness

Xenia, according to Yale Medicine you're wrong.

Sunlight-generated kind isn’t better than the nutritional variety. “The body can use each perfectly fine,” says Dr. Insogna.

There are claims that one needs to get a certain amount of sun exposure every day in order to produce enough vitamin D to be healthy. It’s just not true. The majority of people can get their vitamin D from nutritional supplements and from vitamin D-fortified foods.

Also, you can get vitamin D by exposing your lower arms for a certain time (which you could do privately in your garden).

@Xenia I am abroad and it is currently 45c so no worries about the vitamin d aspect here. We have sun all year round and we own a villa with a pool and garden which isn't overlooked so I enjoy a good tanning session and swimming session with my children most days.

However I believe in freedom so I certianly won't be forcing everyone on to nudist beaches although I am a bit sick of paying such very very high taxes so that people who don't look after themselves and don't get enough vit D can get NHS treatment so I would like the NHS to be a lot stricter over vit D and people being healthy weights.

Fucking hell @xenia. Any excuse, eh? Do you really have nothing better to do than brag and complain about fat people and taxes at every fucking opportnity? What the fuck is wrong with you.

@paastumho It's about basic science, women's bodies are attractive to men in a way that is not the same the other way round.

Citation needed...

Hmm not sure where the faux health concern has come from. Apparently all the obese and vit d deficient people all over the UK are muslims who wear niqab then?

Not sure why covering oneself as a muslim (and as an "atheist"....because non-religous=atheist) has suddenly birthed assumptions there but I guess anything to feel superior.

Not going to bother to say what health issues I do have and don't and what I look like or if I use nhs or private or need your money or not to make you approve of my covering myself. Don't need approval. Assume what you wish afterall you've been doing it on this thread since.

I got out in just knickers without suncream between April and October in the UK
😂
Being bare as nature intended and free as we were as home sapiens for probably 200,000 years give or take an ice age and you cannot go far wrong.
I am Anne Hathaway pale, I burn pretty easily. Especially my arms. I can do dresses with lots of sunscreen on legs. We can't all handle the sun.

[quote arraysstartatzero]**@paastumho* It's about basic science, women's bodies are attractive to men in a way that is not the same the other way round.*

Citation needed...[/quote]
erm...let me break it down, men have a tendency to look at women, I assume this is natural? if women wear revealing clothes, they are likely to get looked at more. Muslim women cover up so they don't have to experience this. This does not mean I am saying women who don't are asking for it. I am saying you can t control other people's behaviour, only your own. i am not saying men can t control themselves or anything, ofcourse they can but are people really saying they don't behave like that?

Erm... I'm not denying that a straight man will look at women they are attracted to, I'm just wondering what this 'basic science' is that says that straight woman don't do the same to men.

@Linning you've summed it up wonderfully. Mumsnet is really showing it's colours as a racist network! Thank you for being an ally

@LastTrainEast I think what might have happened here is that you've been reading quite a lot of the Daily Mail and other right wing media outlets. That would probably explain your ignorance.

@HelloToMyKitty just wondering, are you Muslim or do you live in a predominately Muslim country? You seem to know an awful lot about the ins and outs of every Muslim woman in the world, I am curious to know if you have first hand experience yourself?