To suggest a campaign for a referendum on the death penalty for child abusers?

[TheVoiceOfReasonableness]

I’m a professional (I’m not going to reveal my capacity as it could be too outing) but let’s just say it is within the criminal justice system.

I have been involved with many cases of historic child abuse and child abuse images.

Although I could never voice this opinion publicly, because of my job, I really do think that we ought to consider the death penalty for child abusers.

The problem is, they can’t be cured.

The courses and “treatment” programmes that exist both inside and out of prison are geared towards “minimising risk” of committing further offences and are designed to give paedophiles “strategies” for avoiding “risky situations”. These only work if the paedophile is actually motivated not to hurt children.

The problem is paedophiles are extremely manipulative and are often quite intelligent.

They know what the offender manager (the modern term for a Probation Officer) wants to hear and may be saying all the right things while secretly still believing that there is nothing wrong with what they do.

The death penalty for child rape can easily be justified in my opinion. Arguably it is a worse crime than murder as the victim has to
live with the trauma of what has been done to them and it really does ruin lives permanently.

Now that we have left the EU (I voted remain, but every cloud has a silver lining...) bringing back the death penalty would be just as easy as having another referendum then passing legislation if the majority of the public want it.

We need not go down the American route of spending decades on death row- before we abolished it in the UK in the 1960s you got two appeals and that was it.

As for method- we had the quickest method with hanging and it would be all over in less than 15 seconds. There was no ceremony or last words, your cell was next door to the gallows you would be taken straight through- rope round neck, trapdoor opens, instant death from a broken neck.

Zero reoffending rate.

As for it being in humane and the right to life- innocent people including children die horribly from diseases like cancer all the time. 40,000 have died horribly from Coronavirus. I don’t think snapping the neck of a murderer or rapist who has abused a child to kill them instantly is that horrific TBH

[quote XDownwiththissortofthingX]@Ginkypig

One of the reasons people murder people in US states where they have capital punishment is the fact that if you are going to commit a crime, it's far less likely you'll be caught and punished if the primary witness is dead.

If you are a sex offender, and you know that being successfully prosecuted for committing a sex offence is going to see you forfeit your life in any case, why on earth would you not just kill your victim and reduce the chances of you being caught in the first place? Bear in mind, what's being proposed here is the death penalty for sex offences, not murder, so say for example you repeatedly abuse someone, it never comes to light, but you believe you may be about to be uncovered, murder your victim and it's maybe 20 years if your sex crimes go undiscovered, certain death if your victim remains alive.

Then there are the cases where offenders will just act pre-emptively and kill their victim immediately after the abuse anyway.

Juries are far less gung-ho when there's a potential death penalty in play. There are a few documentaries around following US cases where the defendant has been facing a potential death penalty, concentrating on the jury, and showing how the fact that they might be responsible for bringing about the death of someone serves to provide them with heightened reservations about returning guilty verdicts in cases whereby it's not an absolute slam-dunk certainty that the defendant is guilty. I don't see why it would be any different if the crimes where sex offences rather than murders, so it follows that juries would be less inclined to convict there also.[/quote]
I was hoping this was the intended meaning. I knew already that this is the case in us states where the D/P is used.

It's terrible but it's true, when the stakes for the perpetrator are so final they can and do do anything to make it as likely as possible to avoid detection.

I was worried that you meant that a high number of perpetrators use being abused as a reason (defence) why they themselves go on to commit offences and that the death penalty would effectively be killing people who were once victims themselves but I'm very glad that wasn't what you meant because now I don't need to pose a whole post disagreeing about the premise!

Sorry I made you write a big long post explaining

The death penalty will never be used in the UK again. I am sure you know this already. Lots of people would like it to happen, when they hear about all the heinous crimes that are commited, but the death penalty has been abolished for many years now, and things won't change now, whatever the crime.

When there is yet another vile crime commited, people say, Let them rot in jail,, but this doesn't happen does it.. the prisoners have to be looked after properly now, and don't usually have the biggest hardships ever.

I remember the last hanging in the UK, but was maybe a bit too young to think too much about it, But my late Mum had a couple of newspaper cuttings, showing hundreds of people outside the prison on the hanging day, some people were very sombre, and some were cheering and clapping.

I'd suggest complete removal of your liberty constitutes a pretty significant 'hardship'.

Is there not enough barbarism in the world already? Do you really want to add to it?

@Jux

Is there not enough barbarism in the world already?

Seemingly not. At least it's not another tedious 'death penalty for murderers' non-argument this time though.That's something at least.

"Hi Mr and Mrs Parents of convicted murderer, we've just murdered your son/daughter so that the parents of the person they killed can feel all better. Isn't that wonderful all around!!!!"

Lunacy.

"Oh, and we did it on your behalf, being that we're your democratically elected government and all that. Cheers!"

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

Some of the sentencing is a joke. Punishing child abusers with longer sentences means they're not going to be able to reoffend, and gives some justice to the victims. This can happen alongside rehabilitation, treatment and monitoring.

This has nothing to do with actually stopping it happening in the first place, it has everything to do with justice and punishment after the fact.

Whether that's a good reason for it I don't know, what I was saying is this is why people are angry and calling for things like the death penalty.

The same goes for other crimes like rape of adults, murder, assault, etc. Prisons should be reserved for these violent crimes, crimes that don't actually hurt people should not result in prison.

@Notthefutureyet

Ask yourself how it's possible that offenders can go into prison, come out at the end of their sentences, and despite being on all sorts of monitored lists, subject to scrutiny, parole conditions etc, still be able to commit further offences.

That's not a failing that is down to the length of sentence.

It's perfectly valid to hold the view that sentences simply aren't long enough, but personally I don't see that as a priority, because it won't begin to tackle the fundamental problem even if it is 'put right', which is children being abused.

I'd rather fewer children, ideally none at all, were sexually abused in the first place. Arguments about what should happen to abusers after the fact seem to me to be focused on the issue from entirely the wrong direction.

There needs to be an honest, full, and dispassionate (difficult, I know) discussion about what child sex offenders actually are, a reappraisal of their nature, and some attempt to actually treat them without criminalising them before they actually commit offences against children. God knows how you cut through the ignorance and inherent revulsion people feel for them though in order to get to the point whereby you can even suggest that it might be time to do something besides just acting retrospectively, and 'throwing away the key' after the fact.

You work in the criminal justice system? What does that mean? You Hoover the carpets and do the dusting at the magistrates court? Because with an opinion like yours I sure hope you are not actually involved in any decision-making process. Goodness! Even here in my state in the US we have abolished the death penalty and even when we had it it was for certain particularly heinous murders only. What do you think these people do who have nothing to lose?
Where do you draw the line? An 18-year-old having sex with his 15-year-old girlfriend deserves to be killed?
Jesus wept. You might want to change career paths.

Let's bring back public cricifictions. Long overdue. If its good enough for the Saudis!!!

Crucifictions

I'm fairly sure that isn't how execution takes place in Saudi, although they sometimes display beheaded bodies of criminals that way.

If you really do work in the CJS I think you should consider if you are in the right role. It sounds like you are experiencing burnout or dealing with vicarious trauma. If so, that will have an impact on your professional ability and personal wellbeing.

Fuck, no.

Only read a few reply’s and am honestly horrified that so many think YABU. These people destroy children’s lives and have a huge impact on the child’s family’s lives. Give me the rope and I’d gladly string it round their neck. In fact the rope is too good for them.

'Now that we have left the EU (I voted remain, but every cloud has a silver lining...) bringing back the death penalty would be just as easy as having another referendum then passing legislation if the majority of the public want it.'

The death penalty was abolished in the UK in 1965.. the UK joined the EU in 1973.. so i'm not sure what that has to do with anything. And no I don't think the death penalty should be bought back.

These people destroy children’s lives and have a huge impact on the child’s family’s lives.

Growing up with a sense of responsibility for someone’s death also has a huge impact on a child’s life. Especially when many people are keen to explain how evil they are, when at the same time you are trying to process the idea that that DNA is woven into yourself.

After my abuser killed themselves I became almost mute for several years. Because I grew up with a sense both that I was part pure evil, and my words could kill. (Ironically I went on to be abused again, and was too frightened to disclose a second time).

I like to start with them actually getting long sentences (as so many reoffend) & actually serving them.

@Elieza
@MarleyBarley18
@MrsApplepants

You need to read reports and research into sex offenders that have been castrated. They still abuse children, because paedophilia isn't just about sex drive, so it isn't as simple as just removing the sex organs. They don't need the parts. A lot of the videos made are just torture and 'snuff' type videos, no actual sex. But the main part of any research done is that castrated sex offenders become killers.

@kittie01, the problem is that as a deterrent, the death sentence doesn't work. As said, it makes a conviction less likely to happen. You say sexual abuse destroys a family, in the majority of cases, a family member is the perpetrator.

I can remember when Fred West killed himself, his children felt that they didn't get justice. They all still went on to see and write to Rose. Nearly all abused children still have an attachment to the abusive family member that they need to close down and work through over time.

The death sentence is never about the victims. Our justice system doesn't serve victims well and neither do our after services. If we really cared, we'd be campaigning for better after care services. As well as targeted prisons. Sometimes we have to give community sentences because the therapies and programmes aren't available in prison. I agree that those accessing child abuse videos and images shouldn't walk free from Court, there should be specific prisons for such offenders.

As for child murders, there's very few who get convicted of murder, most are manslaughter or other offenses. The people who have been convicted of murder, include Parents who have wrongfully been accused of killing their disabled children, Mother's who have PND and parents whose babies were found to have died from SIDS or a later discovered medical issue.

This isn't about 'nonce pitying', it's about wanting solutions that work in the interests of children, their families and wider society.

So, in reply to my castration point. What would ensure more children don’t get abused, killed and tortured? I fully believe they will go on to do more harm. It’s too much of a loose cannon or a bomb waiting to explode to ruin many lives. I know of horrific things that have happened and for a while it debilitated my life when my ds1 was tiny as it never occurred to me before I had him. Totally horrific. There is obviously a flaw in the justice system and the guy who is now in the spotlight for killing Maddie McCan he was a repeat offender!

@Awwlookatmybabyspider

Because the Death penalty is barbaric obviously.

Oh and noncing kids, isn't barbaric.

Yes, because that is exactly what I said isn't it. Don't be so bloody ridiculous (and it was a vile thing to accuse me of saying, even implication)

@Awwlookatmybabyspider

I'm not changing my views, pothole. I have no pity for those who are attracted to children and act upon it. Is that politically correct enough. Oh and if you had read my initial comment little miss jump on the bandwagon. You'd have seen that. I'm not actually in favor of the Death Penalty.

No, you're in favour of torture instead. Go you!

Personally I would like to see the death penalty brought back for sexual abuse offences (not just children), murder, rape and repeat offenders of any crime (a kind of three-strikes-and-you're-out system).

Preferably the executions would be public and in an ideal world they'd be televised, it could be a regular slot on BBC news for example. Depending on how many executions were needed it could either be a daily thing ("The 7:55 from Parkhurst") or a longer format programme taking you to different executions around the country (in the same vein they use on election night, whizzing you round the declarations).

My gut feeling is that the method should be hanging, but I am open to other methods too. I think hanging because it's relatively humane provided the drop height is calculated properly. The electric chair, lethal injection and gas chamber seem too American, the guillotine and beheading generally seem a little excessive, but maybe firing squads could be used. Perhaps the best thing would be to have a variety of methods to keep viewers interested. The electric chair might be a bit graphic for younger viewers so that might need to be reserved for executions televised after the watershed.