To suggest a campaign for a referendum on the death penalty for child abusers?

[TheVoiceOfReasonableness]

I’m a professional (I’m not going to reveal my capacity as it could be too outing) but let’s just say it is within the criminal justice system.

I have been involved with many cases of historic child abuse and child abuse images.

Although I could never voice this opinion publicly, because of my job, I really do think that we ought to consider the death penalty for child abusers.

The problem is, they can’t be cured.

The courses and “treatment” programmes that exist both inside and out of prison are geared towards “minimising risk” of committing further offences and are designed to give paedophiles “strategies” for avoiding “risky situations”. These only work if the paedophile is actually motivated not to hurt children.

The problem is paedophiles are extremely manipulative and are often quite intelligent.

They know what the offender manager (the modern term for a Probation Officer) wants to hear and may be saying all the right things while secretly still believing that there is nothing wrong with what they do.

The death penalty for child rape can easily be justified in my opinion. Arguably it is a worse crime than murder as the victim has to
live with the trauma of what has been done to them and it really does ruin lives permanently.

Now that we have left the EU (I voted remain, but every cloud has a silver lining...) bringing back the death penalty would be just as easy as having another referendum then passing legislation if the majority of the public want it.

We need not go down the American route of spending decades on death row- before we abolished it in the UK in the 1960s you got two appeals and that was it.

As for method- we had the quickest method with hanging and it would be all over in less than 15 seconds. There was no ceremony or last words, your cell was next door to the gallows you would be taken straight through- rope round neck, trapdoor opens, instant death from a broken neck.

Zero reoffending rate.

As for it being in humane and the right to life- innocent people including children die horribly from diseases like cancer all the time. 40,000 have died horribly from Coronavirus. I don’t think snapping the neck of a murderer or rapist who has abused a child to kill them instantly is that horrific TBH

Shit! Sorry!!

You want a referendum on something guaranteed to bring out people's most irrational, divisive, retrogressive opinions?
You're a professional?
You're a professional shit-stirrer, more like.

@BubblyBarbara

To be honest I’ve been glad that one outcome of leaving the EU has been a resurgence in debating the death penalty in certain cases because the EU would never allow it. At least now we can have the discussion.

Which bit of the EU treaties do you claim prevented us from having "the discussion"? Are you seriously claiming that no-one dared to discuss the death penalty throughout the entire period when we were members?

My own personal experience of meeting batshit brainwshing psychotherapists who generate false memories of child sexual abuse during bad therapy leaves me extremely concerned about wrongful convictions.

A nightmare world in which completely innocent people, including really good people, activists against real paedophiles, could theoretically be not only wrongly convicted of sexual crimes against children but also murdered by the state would be like something out of the Handmaid's Tale.

If you really are a professional in the filed may I ask you for your honest opinion on the organisation StopSo?

These people rape babies! They ruin lives, they ruin my life because I’m so panicked about anything happening to my child I cannot live a normal life.

@Iheartbellatrixlastrange, if this is true I think you will find that it is you ruining your life. You need treatment, urgently.

If you are a professional in this area you should know that chemical castration is the most effective way of preventing re-offending. That is what you should be campaigning for, not a return to the middle-ages.

Nope. There were very good reasons we got rid of the death penalty. It is problematic in many different ways. I don't want it back for any crime and wouldn't want to live in a country that had it.

excuse the typos

FWIW I think the system here is broken

Innocent people are convicted of historic child sexual abuse

Real historic sexual abuse is covered up and continues to be covered up

The mental health / support system for survivors is not fit for purpose and awash with new age snake oil woo woo therapies that leave survivors vulnerable to abuse

One thing I would agree with you about is that real paedophiles are manipulative and know how to play the system. There are dangerous child abusers walking around free who should not be permitted the luxury of liberty.

But in my core I know without a doubt that death is the only way to protect children from sexual predators because they really will never stop

How does it protect children to incentivise abusers to kill them?

@contrmary, maybe make a game show out of it? Winner gets to pull the lever/fire the shot etc?

No, for all the reasons mentioned by other posters. Inevitably what will happen is that someone will end up being executed and will then turn out not to have been guilty. One innocent life is too high a price.

I certainly believe there are crimes that people deserve to die for - but that doesn’t mean I support the death penalty. Giving a justice system the power to take a life away is dangerous and wrong in my opinion.

Once precedence is set it wont be long before mission creep sets in

No, I have never agreed with the death penalty for anyone. Lock them up for life, but don't use the death penalty.

The conviction rates for sexual offences against adult women are already woefully low. The average jury doesn't want to risk 'ruining' men's lives with a prison sentence and a criminal record for a 'misunderstanding'.

If they introduced the death penalty in for rape, they might as well legalise it. It would be more honest.

OP are you familiar with the case of Carl Beech aka Nick?

This paedophile fantasist's incredible fantasies and disgusting false allegations against a range of senior British figures including a frail and elderly war hero were treated as "credible and true" by a shockingly incompetent gaggle of senior police officers and mental health professionals.

The way that Mike Veale, Steve Rodhouse and Elly Farmer (aka Hanson) et al cocooned the filthy little insect Carl Beech in a comforting envelope of support, respect and tenderness while his vile, false allegations ruined the lives of countless completely innocent people was traumatising to experience unfolding in the news every day.

When we have senior cops like these running investigations the death penalty is an even more horrifying prospect than it might otherwise be

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7691977/NCA-chief-fire-appointing-Steve-Rodhouse-deputy.html

www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/17933553.cleveland-police-slammed-watchdog-following-exit-chief-constable-mike-veale/

and then you have the mental health professionals who lavished "Nick" with support and encouraged the police to take him seriously

barthsnotes.com/2019/08/23/private-eye-looks-at-clinical-psychologist-involved-with-two-vip-sex-abuse-investigations/

barthsnotes.com/2019/07/28/a-note-on-carl-beech-and-the-psychotherapists/

Psychologist Elly Hanson also presented at a conference run by the ESTD UK an association of "professionals" who claim to be experts in psychological trauma but who also promote conspircy theories about satanic ritual abuse, dissociative identity disorder, etc.

This event features such luminaries as the UK's most prominent satanist hunter Valerie Sinason (she who claims that Jimmy Savile was a satanist), the odious Judy Williams who, while working for the Clinic for Dissociative Studies fostered a vulnerable patient of the same clinic and starred alongside her in a "documentary" with no apparent concern for the patient's privacy, Dr Ada Sachs, long time promoter of SRA conspiracy theories.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200618081054/estduk-conference.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Conference-Programme-2019.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200618081054/estduk-conference.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Conference-Programme-2019.pdf

With people like this working in senior positions in statutory organisations nobody is safe from false allegations

First they came for the heads of MI5 and MI6 and Lord Brammal .....

I really understand why so many people are saying they want the death penalty for paedophiles. But it really isn't the answer. The majority are not caught at all, even now. Or there isn't enough evidence. The one person who was arrested for what happened to us in the end wasn't charged despite the police being convinced they had their man, him fitting our description exactly over 30 years after the event and my DSis having identified him.

All because my DM and DB didn't remember him being there at the hotel. His accomplice had been the one who befriended us and groomed us and my DM and the hotel manager had been suspicious of him at the time. But by the time we reported it, he was dead.

This is the reality. A lot of abusers are reported years later once their victims are adults, when there really isn't any evidence, just the victim's word against the perpetrator's. And as has been pointed out, if the penalty is death, juries would be even less likely to convict.

@hoodathunkit

Mostly it isn't about batshit psychotherapists planting memories (there may be some cases of this happening). EMDR doesn't work that way. I've been through this. The memories came back when my DSis and I had small DC. We both then separately processed the memories in therapy. We went through the police investigation and made statements before we processed the memories in therapy.

Victims are actually not allowed to go through EMDR until after a case is over, which keeps them in limbo for months. In our case, the investigation dragged on for 2 years so we were permitted to start in the end. But it was long after we'd made our statements.

In addition, I'd had PTSD for years before the memories came back. I'd had disturbing images for years before this, which I couldn't place. My DSis has long had vaginismus and is unable to have penetrative sex at all.

Yes, I do know about Carl Beech. There's also the tragic case of Stephen Kizsko, who was totally innocent and developed schizophrenia in prison and whose mum campaigned for years for his conviction to be quashed, and didn't live long enough to see him released. He also died soon afterwards.

I meant to say in my first paragraph that we didn't do EMDR until long after we did the police statements. We did process the abuse in therapy. But in talking therapy, therapists are certainly not permitted to ask leading questions at all.

It's an expression of revenge not justice and does nothing whatsoever to protect the public.

Not saying I agree with op, but come now; it would protect children from reoffending child rapists. They're always a risk if not in prison (which they aren't quite quickly due to our pathetic system).

Attitudes like the op (and I haven't rtft yet) are understandable but a) based on a worrying certainty that their PoV about what is possible in terms of working with people with the desire to sexually harm children is the only right one and b) the very attitudes that ensure people with those desires who might otherwise have felt able to seek help in not acting on them don't come forward.

You don't make children safer with a 'lets kill the kiddy fiddlers' approach. You might make yourself feel better but you don't safeguard children.

Oh hell no.
There is no place for the death penalty in modern society.
A)the amount of wrongful convictions, I don't believe in even just one innocent life dying on the off chance the other 9 are guilty.
B) lock them in a cage, and make prison punishing.
They shouldn't get to die, they should have to live the rest of their lives suffering in the same way their victims will be.

EMDR doesn't work that way. I've been through this.

Ah. You had EMDR

The memories came back when my DSis and I had small DC

It can certainly happen that powerful feelings related to preverbal experiences can arise when people have babies and young children. exhaustion, sleep deprivation and memories of one's own childhood can all contribute to new mums needing much support.

We both then separately processed the memories in therapy

I am genuinely interested in what you mean by processed the memories in therapy

I would be very interested if you could help me to understand moe about the "processing" and what it entails.

We went through the police investigation and made statements before we processed the memories in therapy.

Had you discussed the memories with your sister prior to making statements?

Obviously I don't want you to feel pressured to answer my questions, but you seem keen to share your experience and I am very motivated to understand as much as I can as best I can.

I have my own concerns about EMDR which I will happily share when I have a moment, running late so it will have to be later

you should know that chemical castration is the most effective way of preventing re-offending.

How does it work?

Do the child sex offenders have any way of avoiding "treatment"?