To suggest a campaign for a referendum on the death penalty for child abusers?

[TheVoiceOfReasonableness]

I’m a professional (I’m not going to reveal my capacity as it could be too outing) but let’s just say it is within the criminal justice system.

I have been involved with many cases of historic child abuse and child abuse images.

Although I could never voice this opinion publicly, because of my job, I really do think that we ought to consider the death penalty for child abusers.

The problem is, they can’t be cured.

The courses and “treatment” programmes that exist both inside and out of prison are geared towards “minimising risk” of committing further offences and are designed to give paedophiles “strategies” for avoiding “risky situations”. These only work if the paedophile is actually motivated not to hurt children.

The problem is paedophiles are extremely manipulative and are often quite intelligent.

They know what the offender manager (the modern term for a Probation Officer) wants to hear and may be saying all the right things while secretly still believing that there is nothing wrong with what they do.

The death penalty for child rape can easily be justified in my opinion. Arguably it is a worse crime than murder as the victim has to
live with the trauma of what has been done to them and it really does ruin lives permanently.

Now that we have left the EU (I voted remain, but every cloud has a silver lining...) bringing back the death penalty would be just as easy as having another referendum then passing legislation if the majority of the public want it.

We need not go down the American route of spending decades on death row- before we abolished it in the UK in the 1960s you got two appeals and that was it.

As for method- we had the quickest method with hanging and it would be all over in less than 15 seconds. There was no ceremony or last words, your cell was next door to the gallows you would be taken straight through- rope round neck, trapdoor opens, instant death from a broken neck.

Zero reoffending rate.

As for it being in humane and the right to life- innocent people including children die horribly from diseases like cancer all the time. 40,000 have died horribly from Coronavirus. I don’t think snapping the neck of a murderer or rapist who has abused a child to kill them instantly is that horrific TBH

I would suggest building more prisons and staffing them adequately. People keep wondering why sentencing for all offences is so light.

It's because there isn't anywhere to put all convicted offenders for the length of sentences they should ideally serve.

I am totally opposed to the death penalty. However, I think that life should mean life for child abusers, like it did for the ghastly child murderers Ian Brady and Myra Hindley. There should be no parole for child abusers.

Sorry I have to jump on again, the comments on this thread are pathetic! Telling the op too get a different job. She is t engine helping children. While everyone else goes through the world blind to the abuse.

You hear about it, and you give a “aww that’s disgusting that”. Do you do anything about it? No you don’t.

One poster said we cannot kill people because they are attracted to children and cannot help their urges.

Are you kidding me?

So because I’m attracted to men, does that mean I can just rape them?

No it doesn’t, I agree it’s a mental issue and there should be more help out there. But these monsters act their urges out, and it’s not just child abuse”. Have you read some of the things these monsters do. I’m not going to go into it, but I suffer from extreme anxiety about all this stuff.

It’s barbaric! And it’s not just oh kill them and it’s justice for their victim. It’s about the other victims they would then go onto the kill or murder.

These poor tiny babies would never of felt the pain they are put through if the man/woman would of been sentenced to death after the first abuse.

Vanessa George, who abused children and videoed it. Guess what she is free! SHE WILL DO IT AGAIN!

And that goes for all the thousands that do it, but we just don’t no about.

Even the sickos watching children being abused, they enable it!

It’s the worst thing In the world and all you posters who are absolutely blind and obnoxious to the fact that “pedophiles are people too”. Chemical castrated? They can use other things, they still have access to videos and images. I’m sorry if I sound crayon but I’m enraged! I’m angry!

You see it all over the place, and there’s a big massive hue hah of people posting stories and then the public go mad. But what do you do nothing. I’ve started petitions for harsher sentences. I’ve wrote to my local council I’ve wrote the the PM.

No one cares! Because it’s not your children it’s happening too!

PotholeParadise

If 11 year old Susie is being sexually abused by her older brother, will she dare tell anyone?

Working through the mixed feelings when your abuser is someone you should trust is a horrific thing. Disclosing abuse is horrendously difficult for children as it is.

And you think it's fair to add the burden of being responsible for their abuser's death on them?

100% this. I was Susie. When I finally told my family what had been happening (by this time I was 18 and had just aborted the 2nd baby of my rapist) they blamed me. Told me it was my fault our family was being "torn apart". Imagine how guilty I felt. Dirty. Used. A murderer (I dont believe abortion is murder but at times I've felt very guilty). Home wrecker. Slag. Slut. Whore.

Just imagine how much worse I would have felt, and how much more my family would have blamed me if my rapist had then been sentenced to death

No one cares! Because it’s not your children it’s happening too!

Fuck off with the no one cares. No it's not happening to my children. But it did happen to me. And I'm not the only CSA survivor on this thread who have said they are against the death penalty.

@Iheartbellatrixlastrange your anxiety is clouding your ability to have a rational discussion about this matter, which is a huge part of the problem with the death penalty debate.

@Iheartbellatrixlastrange
I would completely support life sentences (actual ones, not the pathetic excuse we have for sentencing in this country) but I don't think there's a benefit to killing offenders. Is that too blind and obnoxious for you still?

Yes, YABU. There's plenty of evil people that I wish could be erased but sadly evil is a part of life we have to suffer. In my opinion abolishing the death penalty is a very important marker of a civilised society and I never want to see it reinstated, no matter how horrific the crime.

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander

PotholeParadise

If 11 year old Susie is being sexually abused by her older brother, will she dare tell anyone?

Working through the mixed feelings when your abuser is someone you should trust is a horrific thing. Disclosing abuse is horrendously difficult for children as it is.

And you think it's fair to add the burden of being responsible for their abuser's death on them?

100% this. I was Susie. When I finally told my family what had been happening (by this time I was 18 and had just aborted the 2nd baby of my rapist) they blamed me. Told me it was my fault our family was being "torn apart". Imagine how guilty I felt. Dirty. Used. A murderer (I dont believe abortion is murder but at times I've felt very guilty). Home wrecker. Slag. Slut. Whore.

Just imagine how much worse I would have felt, and how much more my family would have blamed me if my rapist had then been sentenced to death

I'm so sorry

I had a friend in your position. As with you, they blamed her. To this day, I cannot understand why they found it easier to blame her for everything but they did. I don't want to think about what they would have done and said to her if he'd been executed for it.

I can’t agree with the death penalty. Maybe I would disagree if it was my child who was a victim. But I do think a complete physical castration, removing ALL the body parts involved would do a fair job. So both balls and knob chopped off.

I literally said about 10 posts ago that it happened to me! I have a life-long disability from the injuries I suffered. I also experienced the death of the person who abused me as a result of my disclosure. So I feel like I do care at least a little.

I still do not think that the person dying at the hands of the state instead of taking their own life would have made my life remotely easier or better.

Thanks @PotholeParadise I hope your friend has found some kind of peace. for her too.

@B1rdbra1n

The enjoyment of the crime is very much worth the pay off Are you saying that there is something extremely pleasurable about these sadistic and appalling acts? As if this becomes an overwhelming compulsion, like an addiction to a very powerful drug? 😔

No I wouldn't liken it to drug addiction.

In my opinion it would be more comparable to serial killing than drug addiction.

Like I said I would not argue for the death penalty. No matter what my personal opinion is.
One of the reasons being that it puts overwhelmingly unfair pressure upon victims a large percentage of them have a connection or relationship to the perpetrator so unlike a stranger attacks have complicated emotions toward the perpetrator. They can't simply separate what was done to them from the person who did it and most likely never will be able to especially if they were related.

Iheartbellatrixlastrange not one person on here is excusing child abuse, we just dare to have a different opinion to yours. Look at the crime rates of countries with the death penalty and then try arguing that its a deterrent. A child abuser will abuse children regardless of what the consequences are if they are caught but if they are going to be executed anyway they are far more likely to kill the child. Evidence shows that juries are less likely to convict when it could result in execution and victims will be less willing to report and suffer greater psychological harm long term if the perpetrator dies as a result.

The justice system is there to protect the public first and foremost and there are many ways that can be achieved without killing anyone. Sometimes the current system fails and I totally agree that changes need to be made in how the most risky offenders are monitored and managed but I will never ever agree with the death penalty

So because I’m attracted to men, does that mean I can just rape them?

Teensy problem with this analogy is that you, as an adult woman, are perfectly at liberty to have consensual sex with the object of your desires provided they are willing.

Death penalties are intrinsically self-harming. It's vindictive retribution in it's basest form and has no place in a penal system that is based on rehabilitation. Sex offenders can be rehabilitated successfully, we're just exceptionally poor at doing so, partly because it's far more expedient to cave into the mob demanding more and more punishments than it is to explore unconventional options. We ignore self-confessed potential sex offenders, do nothing with them until they offend, then scream blue murder and demand they be put to death.

You completely undermine your moral authority as a State when you insist that it's immoral to kill people, make it illegal and prosecute those who do, and then go and kill those transgressors yourself. It's an entirely indefensible position stemming from emotion and devoid of any critical thinking. You'll inevitably murder perfectly innocent people, but who cares so long as you bag a few 'nonces' eh?

It's not as if there's any evidence whatsoever that death penalties even function as a deterrent, on the contrary. If you bring in capital punishment for sex offences, you're just going to see fewer convictions and far more dead people who were sexually abused and then killed.

It's an idiotic suggestion.

No.

There have been societies with no infrastructure to deal with criminals, and perhaps in some cases in those societies the death penalty is the only way to protect people from certain dangerous persons.

Otherwise, no, it is too much, and too irrevocable a decision for the state to take on. When it goes wrong it undermines the moral authority of the state. It encourages an understanding of justice as revenge in the public mind. And it is very damaging to all the people involved, the families, the prison guards, those who perform the execution.

Nothing is changing, nothing is being done, they are just getting away with it. Some of these vile beings just get a slap on the wrists.

I agree 100%. This stuff terrifies me.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-48579057

you're just going to see fewer convictions and far more dead people who were sexually abused and then killed

Sorry could you explain what you mean by this?

There are a couple of way that I think this could be understood and I'm not sure which one you were intending.

I promise I'm not trying to be goady.

Fucks sake

I'm going to say. It's highly concerning the amount of nonce pitying on here

No one is “nonce pitying”.

But the death penalty has zero place in a civilised society.

@Ginkypig

One of the reasons people murder people in US states where they have capital punishment is the fact that if you are going to commit a crime, it's far less likely you'll be caught and punished if the primary witness is dead.

If you are a sex offender, and you know that being successfully prosecuted for committing a sex offence is going to see you forfeit your life in any case, why on earth would you not just kill your victim and reduce the chances of you being caught in the first place? Bear in mind, what's being proposed here is the death penalty for sex offences, not murder, so say for example you repeatedly abuse someone, it never comes to light, but you believe you may be about to be uncovered, murder your victim and it's maybe 20 years if your sex crimes go undiscovered, certain death if your victim remains alive.

Then there are the cases where offenders will just act pre-emptively and kill their victim immediately after the abuse anyway.

Juries are far less gung-ho when there's a potential death penalty in play. There are a few documentaries around following US cases where the defendant has been facing a potential death penalty, concentrating on the jury, and showing how the fact that they might be responsible for bringing about the death of someone serves to provide them with heightened reservations about returning guilty verdicts in cases whereby it's not an absolute slam-dunk certainty that the defendant is guilty. I don't see why it would be any different if the crimes where sex offences rather than murders, so it follows that juries would be less inclined to convict there also.

It would help if child abusers actually went to prison, or did a proper amount of time when they do.

People are angry seeing so many of them let off ALL THE TIME, calls for the death penalty are understandable.

@Ginkypig

Sorry, I can see in hindsight why the way I worded my statement could be taken to imply I was suggesting murderers would start sexually abusing their victims before killing them, and that's not what I was intending at all. Sorry for the confusion.

@Notthefutureyet

It would help if child abusers actually went to prison, or did a proper amount of time when they do

No it wouldn't, at least, not if your aim is to see fewer children abused.

Child abusers do go to prison, the problem is, there are more child abusers coming up right behind them who aren't in prison and are still at liberty to abuse children.

Simply punishing people who abuse children does absolutely nothing to prevent children being abused.

We have to get away from refusing to acknowledge the problem because it's distasteful and makes us uncomfortable, simply expecting every single person to behave themselves impeccably as a matter of course, and then turn around once the sex-offenders that we were pretending all along weren't going to exist finally unveil themselves as child abusers and throwing them in prison. By that point the victims are already victims and we've failed them as a society.