To think its not undesirable to be working class?

[HotSince82]

And that actually you can live a perfectly nice life and be quite content, with no aspirations towards upwards social mobility?

I have been noticing in the news at present that WC children are being termed 'disadvantaged' with regards to homeschooling.
Presumably this is in relation to a supposed lack of laptops/ipads etc to aid online learning and/or lack of parental engagement/education level.
From personal experience I don't believe this to be the case. My children and their peers almost without exception have access to these things and parents are motivated and educated sufficiently to support their children's learning.
I am however in no way denying the very real experiences of the children who are living in economically and socially disadvantaged circumstances. I fundamentally believe that every possible scrap of governmental/educational support and assistance available should be provided to them throughout the covid crisis and beyond. I simply don't believe that such disadvantage is a reality within the very vast majority of WC households.

Surely WC isn't synonymous with disadvantage? I feel as though my family has a perfectly nice lifestyle as do those of my acquaintances who are all, broadly speaking very much WC.

I would go so far as to say that I would be content if any of my children replicated a standard of living which is similar to how they have been brought up. Yes, if they become extremely high earners that would I'm certain be rather lovely, but it is in no way a prerequisite to an enjoyable, contented life.

I'm pretty sure that I am correct in this assumption but if I'm missing anything I know that you will all point me in the right direction.

@Lynda07
I am of the exact same opinion, but look, we seem to be in a definite minority here.

That income puts your household in the top 10% of earners. You both have degrees. You allude to within in professional jobs (nursing, civil service). You’re not by any generally accepted definition WC.

Agree.

I personally think that they are using working class when they really mean is families on the poverty line/impacted by austerity. But to use terms like poverty or austerity it suggests that the government isnt doing enough to end poverty.
I think theres a sweet spot in working class/middle class were education is not suffering as severly. I feel its suffering largely at either end, the children from impoverished homes without access to technology or the few who unfortunately have parents who dont care, and at the other end with professional parents who work long hours and simply dont have the spare time to home school as they would have relied on school/childcare for long hours in normal times and are so utterly stressed and exhausted by trying to maintain full time, long, working hours, alongside child care, that the last thing they have energy or headspace to do is homeschool.

Income has nothing to do with class really. My old boss was working class, came from a poor family, he was expelled from school age 14. But he had the gift of the gab and set up a successful sales business. You don't suddenly become middle class just by earning a lot of money.

Pretending to be WC. How cute.

Our family income is quite a bit lower than yours OP and I don’t consider us to be working class - whatever that even means anymore.

We survive but don’t struggle, but also don’t need or expect too much from life.

School would definitely not put our kids in the vulnerable category- maybe the SN child but definitely not because of our family income.

So for clarity; are we expected to agree that an income such as ours necessitates the family being considered MC?

By agreed definitions, yes. Income and professions.

@pontypridd
But that's my point. WC isn't synonymous with disadvantage.

Most people are WC, surely?

Class means different things to different people, clearly. These threads are always full of people like the OP whose household income is way above average saying they're working class. Mostly because no one wants to be middle class

I think many people are very proud to have grown up working class and are reluctant to let go of that - like I said about some celebrities. They still consider themselves working class, but their children who have grown up in the big houses, wearing designer clothes and going to private schools certainly aren’t. I think it does have a lot more to do with how you grew up rather than the life you’re leading now.

@FuchsiaFox I agree entirely.

I haven't seen anything about working class children being disadvantaged. I've seen things about low income and disadvantaged families but working class does not necessarily equate to this.

'My best friend lives on a council estate' that's your criteria?

My criteria for what?

The poster assumed I wouldn't visit a council estate so as a criteria for disagreeing with her, yes thats it.

My best friend lives on a council estate, of course my kids play with hers, of course I visit her. I have aunties who still live on council estates in Liverpool. I don't know why you presumed otherwise. Perhaps I’m being unfair but you do sound a bit ‘I’m not middle class, I know people who live on council estates’ 😉 I didn’t presume anything. The only time I mentioned council estates was in my first paragraph where I was speaking generally and my last paragraph, in which I referred to my own estate (which, to be fair, is bloody rough). You might visit council estates and let your kids play with your friend’s kids but I still don’t think many people with a choice would willingly come onto mine or let their kids wander around it.

And it’s pretty irrelevant that your DH hasn’t got a chip on his shoulder about having had free school meals. Nobody I know has a chip on their shoulder either. It was what it was. It’s just a shit, very middle class way way to refer to kids from a different economic background.

Even if you describe yourself as working class you acknowledge that the class you are in also contains the most vulnerable in regards to poverty, options, education, employment etc. Similar to poor people are not dysfunctional but people who are dysfunctional tend to be poor. Not all schools in poor areas are below standard but below standard school tend to be in poorer areas.

I'd much rather be middle-class. But then I am middle-class I suspect most working-class people would rather be working-class too!

Some people who would be described as middle class seem to really hate the idea of being middle class. I dont really get it.

Is being working class important to you, OP? It's not important to me, it's just what I am. I dont think I'd still call myself WC if I was in the top 10 percent of earners. Maybe I'd say I'm from a WC background.

Yy @Boulshired I think people confuse causation with correlation when talking about poverty and also that there is a modicum of censure. It's always been possible to not earn much money but also to function perfectly well and be hard working and intelligent but this is rarely acknowledged.

I'm following this with interest OP. I consider myself working class as do my parents but reading this it seems that posters might consider me MC.

I have an undergraduate degree, DP doesn't. Household income of £70k. Live in private rental in a former out village. Have two cars, at least one holiday a year. Parents were a miner a d a secretary who bought a business and built it up until they were very comfortable.

I'd be willing to bet that if you asked any of my friends,acquaintances and colleagues they would say I'm WC.

@Mumoblue middle class is boring, conventional and stultifying to the point of regression. Lower middle class is comical. Working class is righteous, cool, downtrodden and has a trajectory. See also: Common People, Abigail's Party, Keeping Up Appearances and a million other representations of this. Jfc, see Henry IV part 2.

@Sn0tnose I wouldn't rush to live on a council estate now, no but that hardly marks me out as MC. Tell you what though I'd take social housing tomorrow if I lost my job and the house got repossesed. Its not in any way beneath me its just I am fortunate to have a mortgage.

I think the area you come from sounds a lot like mine, where there’s a lot of working class pride and historically people have worked really traditional working class jobs (docks, factories, miners) and EVERYONE would have been working class. It’s hard to let go of that collective identity even if nowadays there’s more of a range and some people are in more professional jobs. You’d get shit on for saying youre middle class even if you work a nice office job for 30k a year bevause being middle class is associated with being a posh tosser.

My dad would definitely do the whole “weyy I’m just a working class lad, me” bit and that is his background, but practically he’s been living a very middle class lifestyle for the past 20 years.

@Boulshired yes, it goes without saying that the WC contains within it the most disadvantaged in society. Just as the UC contains the most advantaged, economically speaking of course.

The point of the thread is simply that the whole of the class should not be defined by the most disadvantaged minority within it.

I sort of get it OP. I was a teen single mum from a working class family. In the 13 years since I got a degree (first on in my entire circle of family), bought a house early twenties and have a ‘middle class’ on paper job, and have an annual family income of 75k. I don’t put myself into a class, because in reality I blend into both.