To think its not undesirable to be working class?

[HotSince82]

And that actually you can live a perfectly nice life and be quite content, with no aspirations towards upwards social mobility?

I have been noticing in the news at present that WC children are being termed 'disadvantaged' with regards to homeschooling.
Presumably this is in relation to a supposed lack of laptops/ipads etc to aid online learning and/or lack of parental engagement/education level.
From personal experience I don't believe this to be the case. My children and their peers almost without exception have access to these things and parents are motivated and educated sufficiently to support their children's learning.
I am however in no way denying the very real experiences of the children who are living in economically and socially disadvantaged circumstances. I fundamentally believe that every possible scrap of governmental/educational support and assistance available should be provided to them throughout the covid crisis and beyond. I simply don't believe that such disadvantage is a reality within the very vast majority of WC households.

Surely WC isn't synonymous with disadvantage? I feel as though my family has a perfectly nice lifestyle as do those of my acquaintances who are all, broadly speaking very much WC.

I would go so far as to say that I would be content if any of my children replicated a standard of living which is similar to how they have been brought up. Yes, if they become extremely high earners that would I'm certain be rather lovely, but it is in no way a prerequisite to an enjoyable, contented life.

I'm pretty sure that I am correct in this assumption but if I'm missing anything I know that you will all point me in the right direction.

OP, I think they mean disadvantaged because their parents will be working throughout the day and not able to teach them. Whereas in lower classes, their parents may be keyworkers, so their kids get to go to school.

I’m an unemployed single parent with 3 DC.

I left school at fifteen and have done low level admin and cleaning jobs until stopping work due to ill health a year ago.

All of my friends and DC’s friends are middle class, or even upper class.

My DC have had more homeschooling than any of my friends DC. In fact - I have had a couple of them over for a socially distanced lesson in my garden.

I don’t think class dictates anything anymore.

"What if you started as a squady from a WC family? Do you change class with rank?"
It's very hard for squaddies to cross the line and become Officers, think they need qualifications etc. And yes, I think if they eventually become Colonels or Captains or whatever the term is, they go across classes. I dont think they ever feel like they have though...

By your definition,TabbyMumz, doctors who are “key workers” are “lower” class. I’m sure they will be interested to know that.

@TabbyMumz that’s interesting, thanks! I didn’t know qualifications were important in the forces (other than for drs etc!). I assumed that service record was what got you promoted. Maybe that’s completely out of touch with modern forces, I’m probably being a bit Victorian

Key workers are lower class now.... jeez tabbymumz try reading some basic sociology before you insult anymore people.

I think what I perceive to be correct, namely that income does not necessarily correlate with social class is essentially what is disagreed with by some on the thread.
Fundamentally large swathes of the WC are now both educated and economically comfortable without necessitating them having moved to the MC.
Innstead of the MC having grown bigger, the WC have become on the whole, greater educated and financially recompensed for their knowledge and skill.
However it suits the present government and previously Labour under Tory Blair to paint an entirely different narrative. Imagine what would happen to the electorate if they stopped aspiring to escape the WC label.
I don't entirely think it is by accident that the media will persist in alluding to the WC as disadvantaged, considering who owns most of it. For society to continue to progress in the way that has been set in motion by the coalition and the present government the WC must surely be perceived in the main to be something, which I termed in the OP as somewhat undersirable.

The former definitions of class were very much based on parental occupation. For example, a vicar was in the top stratum so it was about social standing and certainly not largely to do with income. I’m sure this is still quite a defining factor.

SueEllenMishke

Key workers are lower class now.... jeez tabbymumz try reading some basic sociology before you insult anymore people.

Indeed! The basics should be sufficient.

I agree op. The lazy journos are getting it wrong.

Interesting thread.

What am I?

University and other qualifications.

Not working but am a carer and claim benefits.
Home educate by choice.

Homeowner and car owner outright.
Frugal but do not go without anything we like.

My children have had access to over the last 15 years:
Horseriding
Museums
Theatre
Musicals
Plays
Theatre groups
Dancing including street, ballet and tap
Cheerleading
Gymnastics and trampolining
Theme parks
Holidays in UK and abroad
Cinema
Swimming
Religious group

Caveat: home education groups can access lots of things cheaply due to using them off peak when others are at school. For instance, the daytime group is cheaper than the after school and weekend group.

Pre lockdown and last 2 years have done less activities but still consist of dance, theatre group, religious group and sports group.

We read, watch documentaries, dont have a TV licence (was a frugal decision as tv is rubbish and we only watched cbeebies at that point) but watch a lot of programmes online, love the cinema and films.

Now divorced but husband was a manual worker, after being a chef who was unlucky with working in restaurants that kept closing and gave up being a chef as too precarious. He was also foreign born (came to UK when he married me) and multilingual.

I live now and before in an street with a mix of Mc and Wc families. I choose to live in similar places each time with low crime, mix of demographics like c2 and b1, not naice but nice, standard with good bits and not good bits. Though my street is a nice bit as is the general area.

Have great financial education and make every pound work hard. I think longterm even though I have low income. Personally not career minded but that is circumstance rather than mindset as once upon a time was aiming to be a solicitor/ maybe barrister and now am a carer in receipt of benefits.

I would categorise myself as:
Income: underclass or prelatariat
Background: a muddle as one side established working class and one side established middle class.

Education: middle class

Outlook: I aspire to self employment at part time hours making a low income go further through forethought and planning. I'd rather work less hours and be more frugal then work long hours and have money to throw at things.

What am I?

It’s fascinating. Definitely 2 facets to class, income and culture. You can have a penniless aristocrat living a semi-ruined stately home with no money and threadbare clothing who is still very much UC and a council estate lad earning millions in the premier league who is still very much WC. It’s definable in the language they use and the way they interact with family and friends, they traditions they hold.

Didn’t Jilly Cooper write a book about it?

My income puts me in the underclass.

To respond to your original point OP, no I wouldn’t want my children to replicate our standard living, despite the fact that DH earns a very good salary, I don’t work, we own our own home and can afford holidays and treats. That’s because I want more for them. Just like my parents wanted more for me, and their parents wanted more for them. Every generation in my family has made sure the next generation did better. My DC will be the first to go to private school. My parents were the first to go to university. If I’d wanted my children to do the same as me, I would’ve stayed in my shitty home town, where everyone there has kids with someone they were at school with, earns minimum wage or is on benefits, and they’re happy for their kids to go to the same school they did. I got out of there as soon as I could. Intelligence, working hard and being ambitious were not things that were valued where I grew up, and I wouldn’t want my DC growing up with that mentality.

@flirtygirl I think most of us can safely dispense with considering our income with regard to our social class.

Who do you most identify with, in whose company are you most able to relax with no pretences, be yourself, share your opinions and reciprocate in conversations with shared experiences?
To my mind these things are a much greater indication of the social class which you belong to. Income is largely immaterial especially if your earned income isn't commensurate with the household in which you grew up.

not naice but nice,

"Mrsemcgregor

@TabbyMumzthat’s interesting, thanks! I didn’t know qualifications were important in the forces (other than for drs etc!). I assumed that service record was what got you promoted. Maybe that’s completely out of touch with modern forces, I’m probably being a bit Victorian"
Think you need a Levels to be an officer, whereas to be a squaddie at entry level, dont think you need qualifications at all.

HotSince82
Good questions, I haven't thought it about that way.

I fit well with both due to my family being both. I have had to mix at length with both sides so im in the middle. Both sides value education but one side works a job and would go out to pub or community centre. Other side would never be seen dead in such a place.

One side the established working class has teachers, nurse, cleaners, tas, mechanics, hairdressers, crane drivers, builders, shop assistants, etc (even an accountant and professor)
There is some home ownership, some are council housed and 99% are state educated. My cousin the professor went to grammar school and his mother is a nurse. He is the most educated on that side and is definitely middle class, he received a middle class upbringing and has one working class parent and one established middle class parent.

The other side of my family are business owners, lawyers and judges. All home owners and all privately educated. They fought hard with my mother for me to go private at age 11 but I refused. A decision I sometimes regret when I see their lives.

in whose company are you most able to relax with no pretences, be yourself, share your opinions and reciprocate in conversations with shared experiences?

The answer is both. I would be talking about courses, interesting facts and figures and what other governments are doing but also the new nail shop opened in town, what trends are around and what they have watched recently. (so I can find it for free on the Internet. )

My interests may schew middle class but I can be comfortable with both. My first home was a council house but I went from that to buying a house within 3 years. (No family help.)

Didn’t Jilly Cooper write a book about it?

Why does someone always refer to her? Sociologists have a much more intellectual input.

Good thread, OP.

It was extremely liberating to live overseas and be free of it!

When you are overseas the content that comes out of your mouth matters more than RP.

It is a fascinating topic. There is much more to it than saying that if you work you are working class, for goodness’ sake.

I also do not think it is easy to cross class divides, I have seen many try and fail. That to me is a very grey area. I hate the saying but money does not buy class, and it certainly doesn't where I am from.

@candilemon

Didn’t Jilly Cooper write a book about it?

Why does someone always refer to her? Sociologists have a much more intellectual input.

Sorry, I didn’t know we weren’t supposed to.

Also didn’t know we were only allowed to read intellectual papers by sociologists.

I think it’s the non-working class that have disadvantaged children. Families that are unable to work for whatever reason, multi-generational benefit households and those living in hostels and/or in crisis.

Children in those households do not have broadband/laptops and/or they have parents who perpetuate a very negative view of education or are abusive.

Those are the kids who desperately need school to be compulsory again.