To think its not undesirable to be working class?

[HotSince82]

And that actually you can live a perfectly nice life and be quite content, with no aspirations towards upwards social mobility?

I have been noticing in the news at present that WC children are being termed 'disadvantaged' with regards to homeschooling.
Presumably this is in relation to a supposed lack of laptops/ipads etc to aid online learning and/or lack of parental engagement/education level.
From personal experience I don't believe this to be the case. My children and their peers almost without exception have access to these things and parents are motivated and educated sufficiently to support their children's learning.
I am however in no way denying the very real experiences of the children who are living in economically and socially disadvantaged circumstances. I fundamentally believe that every possible scrap of governmental/educational support and assistance available should be provided to them throughout the covid crisis and beyond. I simply don't believe that such disadvantage is a reality within the very vast majority of WC households.

Surely WC isn't synonymous with disadvantage? I feel as though my family has a perfectly nice lifestyle as do those of my acquaintances who are all, broadly speaking very much WC.

I would go so far as to say that I would be content if any of my children replicated a standard of living which is similar to how they have been brought up. Yes, if they become extremely high earners that would I'm certain be rather lovely, but it is in no way a prerequisite to an enjoyable, contented life.

I'm pretty sure that I am correct in this assumption but if I'm missing anything I know that you will all point me in the right direction.

I think you'd be very surprised by how many of those categories i join you in actually OP.

Do you believe one can't change class, then?

Is it just based on what you earn? My brother and I were bought up in a small house by just our Mum who definitely had a working class job. She would describe herself as working class.

My brother went to Uni. So does that mean he's middle class now?

I have a job where I'm a member of a trade union and lots of the especially older employees consider themselves working class. But our wages would exclude us from being so based on this thread. I don't have a degree.

@SuperMumTum
The reason that they would scoff is because they would find it amusing to be described as MC. A couple of them have broad scouse accents. Its not a derision of the MC to recognise that you don't belong to it by virtue of your academic attainments.

Lots of people seem to think they're "working class" when really they're just working. I think the definitions need revisiting.

Completely agree. I’ve heard several celebrities, who are clearly earning well above average, claiming to be working class because ‘they work’ or simply because their parents are working class. Is that really how it works?

@SomeoneElseEntirelyNow No, I don't consider it to be posdible over the course of one generation. Also you have to wish to immerse yourself in a new class consciousness/culture. Or at the very least be unsatisfied/ambivalent about your present position.

A couple of them have broad scouse accents

TIL that you can't be middle class if you're from Merseyside. No one tell my dentist.

have broad scouse accents

Haha what

No, I don't consider it to be posdible over the course of one generation.

You realise that means it can never be done, right? If you can't be middle class because youre parents are working class, then your kids can't be middle class because youre working class. And so on.

I think you're being more emotional than factual here OP, by general definition you, your degree and your above average wage are definitely not working class.

The political part of the working class is part of the problem with labour and the not so wealthy working class. Champagne socialist who believe they know what it is to be working class and talk of the working class. You can be working class but acknowledge that you are benefiting from a lifestyle associated with being middle class.

It would be difficult to argue that we are anything other than ordinary, WC people
I don’t know any WC people with degrees and a
Household income of circa 55-60K

I don't think many people who retain the scouse accent would claim to be MC. The scousers I know who see themselves as MC have markedly softened their accents, not quite to RP but not far off

That system has had its day. Working class is fine.

Well as a scouser I was deemed middle class as soon as I moved down south. There are definitely parts of Liverpool that are middle class and a slight variation on the accent.

@SomeoneElseEntirelyNow Its ever so slightly patronising to accuse me of over emotionality simply because I refuse to be labelled as MC.

You've seemed rather a nice sort up to now though so I presume it was entirely unintended.

Are you aware how ridiculous you sound? Class is now based on accent? There are working class people in Surrey too, you know. How do you think they speak?

@Boulshired Ah ok a native well my educated colleagues are from Bootle, Anfield and Kirkby rather than Woolton.
So can you forgive them for not considering themselves MC in light of that?

I didnt say you were being overly emotional, i said you were looking at this from an emotional point of view rather than a factual one. It wasnt a criticism, it's a valid position.

Your point about accents isn't, though. That's just daft.

@SomeoneElseEntirelyNow its accepted that a regional accent will mark you out as WC.
I don't actually know anybody from Surrey so sadly I couldn't comment either way.

Maybe Merseyside runs to its own rules? It generally does. Great place but definitely a very distinct culture all its own.

Far more people are working class than either live in poverty or 3 weeks of reduced pay /one big bill away from poverty.

@HotSince82 its accepted that a regional accent will mark you out as WC.

By who!? The majority of middle class people i know have accents, because they're from different parts of the country.

Class means different things to different people, clearly. These threads are always full of people like the OP whose household income is way above average saying they're working class. Mostly because no one wants to be middle class. They especially don't want to be lower middle class (ie decent wage, not trade or skilled but not in a profession).

Anyway when the BBC etc is reporting on households that can't afford to equip their children with access to technology - not households who choose to "drive battered old Volvos, holiday in the UK and have an ancient tablet" because they prioritise spending on other things - what they are referring to are poor people. People who live in poverty. Which for some reason has become a taboo term.

One thing is certain though is that everyone knows what poverty looks like, even if they wilfully misdeclare their class position, so actually it's a term that conveys greater meaning.

Its not a fact that I am MC.

If a WC person met me down the pub they would accept me as of the same social class as them, broadly speaking. A MC persin simply would not.
Irrespective of my income, educational level, articulation they would know that I was WC.
I think its disingenous to suppose otherwise.

...i don't think you can tell class from speaking to someone. Surely that's just stereotyping?

Right you are OP.