To ask how you 'prod' uninvolved DH in the right direction?

[HiddenTheRemote]

Name-changed for this one...

So in our 20s, DH and I were both fairly disorganised, lazy, untidy, enjoyed going out, hated housework, got up really late at the weekend, ate takeout and microwave meals a lot, watched lots of TV...We just about managed to get by without throttling each other as we were both working long hours in demanding jobs and, let's face, how much is there to do at home with 2 adults?

Fast forward now. Early 30s. 1 toddler DC. I accepted early on that some aspects of our lives would have to change. For example, we'd have to at least do the minimum to keep DC alive and happy, tidy the house now and then, put the occasional meal in front of DC, not leave unsupervised on weekend mornings. Painful but necessary. Problem is that DH hasn't quite come to the same realisation. He's still disorganised, lazy, untidy, enjoys going out, hates housework, has long lies at weekends, eats takeouts and microwave meals. And leaves his stuff around the house for me to clean up. For example, if he makes sausages, he'll leave the packet on the side and the pan in the sink, presumably for me to deal with. Pre-DC, I would just have left the pan in the sink until there were no more pans for him to use, but (even with my low standards) I don't think it's fair for DC to grow up in that environment.

I know what you're thinking...WHY DO YOU ALLOW THIS? YOU NEED TO KICK THE B@#?# INTO TOUCH? There is some truth in that. However, I've tried nagging and confrontation, and sometimes we argue and sometimes I get a vague commitment to try harder in the future which is never followed through. Can't be bothered any more...I want to be a happy person. Should say, he has many good points - we have fun together, laugh together, dote on DC, he's generous and good-natured.

So AIBU to ask for any devious tips you might have to 'prod' DH in the right direction? Has anything worked for you? I thought about putting the dirty pan and empty packet on his side of the bed to 'remind' him to deal with them, but I have to sleep there too! Or, instead of taking DC downstairs at the weekend to play, encouraging 'Jump on Daddy' games until he gets out of bed. Or asking him to look after DC while I pop to the bathroom, then legging it out of the house and turning off my phone for a few hours. But these seems a bit obvious...Just wondering if anyone can suggest anything a bit subtler?

It will eternally baffle me why women get with slobby lazy men and then are surprised when those men are still slobby lazy men after babies are born.

Don't have any words of wisdom but I wouldn't have another child until this is sorted.

That sounds so grim think more than a prod will be needed, how about starting by telling him to grow up a bit ?

Oh god. Why play stupid games or be subtle? Either decide to accept it or tell him he’s got to get his fucking act together or fuck off and live in a revolting hovel by himself.

He thinks he’s better than you and deserves to create mess and have someone else clean it up. He thinks you’re less important than him and get to be the unpaid skivvy. Does that feel good? Do you want your child thinking they get to make loads of mess and silly old mum is there to clean everything up?

You knew what he was like when you married him, and the sky will fall down before he will ever change. Once a man child, always a man child. What I do know is that the frustration you're feeling now will turn into seething resentment. You're already way past the being "subtle" phase. You need to get very, very serious with him.

The way to a man's heart may be through his stomach but for physical motivation you need to be aiming a bit lower...
Shame if you are too knackered these days from having a toddler and a slobby teenager for any adult activities....
Ime this needs sorting before resentment damages your relationship...
Personally speaking my dh thrives on The List.
As long as your arm as long as it's spelled out.
He does have some genuine memory loss /absences so this works very well for our marriage!!

It will eternally baffle me why women get with slobby lazy men and then are surprised when those men are still slobby lazy men after babies are born.

Got to be honest, it wasn't just DH. I was a slobby lazy woman before DC ...I've managed to rehabilitate myself somewhat in order to provide an acceptable environment for a child to live in. Not sure I buy the argument that men are beyond redemption when so many women manage to grow up and 'adult' adequately when children come along. Also, should add that DC was entirely wanted, DH super-enthusiastic and we discussed at length how we would parent entirely together (though, like everyone pre-DC, we were slightly naive about how a child would change our lives - we hadn't had much contact with young children before that).

Anyway, DC's here and I understand they have a 'no returns' policy. DH is a positive, loving influence in his life (and mine) in many ways...But apparently he doesn't know where the bin is . Hence me asking for tips so I don't end up burying the 'positive, loving influence' under the patio the next time he fancies a sausage.

@Smallsteps88

It will eternally baffle me why women get with slobby lazy men and then are surprised when those men are still slobby lazy men after babies are born.

Well that might be a fair judgement if OP wasn’t clearly saying she was the same as him in her twenties. Plenty of people are messy and disorganised in their twenties but then get a grip on things.

I've managed to rehabilitate myself somewhat in order to provide an acceptable environment for a child to live in. Not sure I buy the argument that men are beyond redemption when so many women manage to grow up and 'adult' adequately when children come along.

The difference is wanting to. You wanted to- he doesn’t. So he won’t. There’s no benefit for him in clearing up after himself and his child. It’s work that he doesn’t have to do because you always do it. So why would he? Where’s the benefit to him. The only thing that will make him question his position is the risk of losing you and his child but only if he actually fears that. Some aren’t bothered. They’ll get another housemaid girlfriend.

The only way I ever managed it was leaving him for a few months (ended up being six) and he had to learn to do things and look after himself. We got back together and he's so much better. He hadn't realised how much I was doing and what I was doing because his Mum had always done everything for him, we now split everything 50/50.

Bit drastic I know but it worked.

Well that might be a fair judgement if OP wasn’t clearly saying she was the same as him in her twenties. Plenty of people are messy and disorganised in their twenties but then get a grip on things.

Like I said- the people who change, change because they want to- not because they’ve reached 30.

Before D.C. my husband was a nightmare - I’d travel for work, leaving everything clean and tidy before I left. I’d come back 4 days later and it would look like a stag party had tore through the house. I did get wholly pissed off at one point, booked myself into a local hotel and told him to come and get me when the house was as I had left it.

More recently, post D.C. we’ve had some very clear conversations about his role as an equal adult in the house both in childcare and housework. He’s much better now and just doing what needs done rather than waiting for me to tell him. You do need to be clear though that you won’t live with him not pulling his weight.

He has to pay for a cleaner to clean his mess.

It's not up to you to Clean his mess up and he should help more with the dc but if your pulling your weight and he isn't he needs to suck it up somehow.

It will eternally baffle me why women get with slobby lazy men and then are surprised when those men are still slobby lazy men after babies are born.

Well I was pretty slobby and lazy before I had kids, but I grew up and kicked my own arse into gear. Why can't men be expected to do the same?

I would get rid of him OP. You will have a lot less mess to clear up when he's not there.

I'm going to chime in @HidetheRemote. So based on when I got together with DH, had I been on MN then, there is no way I would have married him. Put it this way, most girlfriends start leaving shampoo and pyjamas at their bf's flat - I started leaving cleaning products.

He is still horribly untidy but after 8 years of marriage and 2 children, he's much better. I explained that I found the mess disrespectful and that I found it distressing, especially if I'd just cleaned (I really really hate mess). It has sunk in, and the reason is not that he us particularly bothered about mess but because he loves me and wants me to be happy. We've compromised - I hate cooking and would happily live on pasta and baked beans, so he cooks most of the time. I clean the house (or arrange a cleaner but I'm currently on Mat leave). He does the bins and the older DS's bed and bath time. I do baby bath time and bed time. It isb't perfect, I'd love it if he was instinctively tidy, but it works for us.

Plenty of people are messy and disorganised in their twenties - Yes, neither of us really cared then. We'd have friends over, leave bottles, glasses and plates lying around, clothes everywhere...It wasn't really that we expected the other person to clean up (and to be fair to DH, I'm not sure he really expects me to clean up his mess), it's just that we assumed that the plates and clothes would walk themselves to the sink and laundry-bin if we waited long enough...If it got really bad, we'd jointly decide to take action and blitz the plate. It's just now with DC that's not an option anymore.

Well I was pretty slobby and lazy before I had kids, but I grew up and kicked my own arse into gear.

You wanted to.

Why can't men be expected to do the same?

Many men do. The ones that want to.

If you're not an author you should be one. You're funny and write vividly!

Idea:
Write a list of everything you do of a day and everything he does. Your list will be longer than his. Tell him you're not a dickhead he can take advantage of and you're moving yours to his side until it's equal. Take it as a personal insult if he doesn't do it because that's what it is. Explain that he is making decisions on your behalf and you will not accept them.

And BTW many women also dont start being tidy when their children arrive.

Start going away on a regular basis. Work trips, obligatory family things, volunteering.
Find a reason.
DH and I are not naturally houseproud or interested in cooking either, but leaving him to run the show while I was away with work was educational for him. And no, don't leave premade meals or run through the days requirements twice a day with him like so many of my female colleagues did.

The difference is wanting to. You wanted to- he doesn’t. So he won’t

Wrong! I don't want to do housework. I don't want to cook, I bloody hate it, I do it because I have the responsibility of bringing up children. Men do it because they are allowed to, because they know someone else will do it for them.

In a relationship you have to grow together - sometimes one of you is slightly ahead or behind. If one gets too far behind it's going to be the end of things. He can't have his cake and eat it - a wife and a child but living the life of a youngster with no responsibilities.

I'd talk to him. You're being jokey now but it won't be funny in a few years time. Just because you both liked it before doesn't mean it gives the other a pass to be an eternal 'student'. You expect people to grow up and mature. Me and DH used to love going in city breaks pre kids. Would be a bit weird if he was off every other weekend to Europe and I was by myself with the kids.

Explain the danger here - you'll grow apart, you'll resent him, grow to hate him and then he won't be able to rescue it and you'll get divorced. Be clear about your expectations and not just minimum standards e.g

• on Saturday you get up with the kids and he has a lie in till 9, then you swap on Sunday. Monday's and Tuesdays he's responsible for dinner and you'll tidy up, then swap on Wednesday and Thursday and Friday is take away night. Dinner is meat, carb and a veg. Spell it out to him exactly. You'll do laundry, he must do the bins every day and the hoovering.

Good luck OP

I’d sit him down and asked him what he wants to do.

A) hire a daily cleaner to come in and do dishes, kitchen, empty bins, make beds, do laundry.

B) do his own 50% share of everything.

C) move out.

Have you had a conversation with him about it? He definitely needs to be sharing lie ins with you for a start. Tell him which day is his turn to get up and stick to it.