To ask how you 'prod' uninvolved DH in the right direction?

[HiddenTheRemote]

Name-changed for this one...

So in our 20s, DH and I were both fairly disorganised, lazy, untidy, enjoyed going out, hated housework, got up really late at the weekend, ate takeout and microwave meals a lot, watched lots of TV...We just about managed to get by without throttling each other as we were both working long hours in demanding jobs and, let's face, how much is there to do at home with 2 adults?

Fast forward now. Early 30s. 1 toddler DC. I accepted early on that some aspects of our lives would have to change. For example, we'd have to at least do the minimum to keep DC alive and happy, tidy the house now and then, put the occasional meal in front of DC, not leave unsupervised on weekend mornings. Painful but necessary. Problem is that DH hasn't quite come to the same realisation. He's still disorganised, lazy, untidy, enjoys going out, hates housework, has long lies at weekends, eats takeouts and microwave meals. And leaves his stuff around the house for me to clean up. For example, if he makes sausages, he'll leave the packet on the side and the pan in the sink, presumably for me to deal with. Pre-DC, I would just have left the pan in the sink until there were no more pans for him to use, but (even with my low standards) I don't think it's fair for DC to grow up in that environment.

I know what you're thinking...WHY DO YOU ALLOW THIS? YOU NEED TO KICK THE B@#?# INTO TOUCH? There is some truth in that. However, I've tried nagging and confrontation, and sometimes we argue and sometimes I get a vague commitment to try harder in the future which is never followed through. Can't be bothered any more...I want to be a happy person. Should say, he has many good points - we have fun together, laugh together, dote on DC, he's generous and good-natured.

So AIBU to ask for any devious tips you might have to 'prod' DH in the right direction? Has anything worked for you? I thought about putting the dirty pan and empty packet on his side of the bed to 'remind' him to deal with them, but I have to sleep there too! Or, instead of taking DC downstairs at the weekend to play, encouraging 'Jump on Daddy' games until he gets out of bed. Or asking him to look after DC while I pop to the bathroom, then legging it out of the house and turning off my phone for a few hours. But these seems a bit obvious...Just wondering if anyone can suggest anything a bit subtler?

Does he make the effort to have sex ?

Sorry, this is long...

Thanks for all your advice, constructive and otherwise! You’ve made me laugh but also think a bit about best way forward. All comments noted.

I fail to believe people can be so clueless. There isn’t a person alive that doesn’t realise kids are hard work.

Thanks for the constructive advice! C.f. no returns policy.

It’s true that the few parents we knew told us it was hard work. We nodded gravely, while thinking to ourselves, “Yes, yes, we’re used to working hard. Got this one covered…How much work can one tiny baby be?” We were ok (we thought) with feeding, changing nappies (eww, gross!), mashing food, taking adorable baby to baby groups, cooing over him as he lay giggling on his playmat…But of course, it’s do all of this and more and then repeat…Over and over again…And that’s the thing you just don’t get as a non-parent. The relentlessness. The sleep deprivation. Nappy-changing is the easy bit…

And then they grow and start to move…fast. And you find yourself running across the park like a madwoman screaming, “Not near the road, please, not near the road!”

Really, our predicament is all your fault (assuming you have children)...

Hear me out on this one...I mean, do you post the videos of you screaming at your DC because they’re lying on the supermarket floor refusing to move, or punching their siblings in the face, on Facebook? Nope? I bet you post the pictures of them happily crafting away or baking cupcakes like adorable, huggable little cherubs. You're part of the conspiracy. So am I now. “Here is DC on a nature walk learning about the bees and the flowers. Isn’t it nice to get out into the fresh air and be with nature?” Carefully editing the part where he rips their heads off or falls over in the mud or moans he wants to go watch TV. Having been a victim of the deception, I am now one of its perpetrators.

Sounds like you both should have avoided the whole thing.

Even if I have to do everything myself till the end of time, I’m ok with that (and DH will be dead). Because DS is terrific. We lucked out with him. Although somewhat naughty, he’s great company, helpful, easy-going and beautiful beyond belief.

I especially like him when he’s a little sleeping angel. And I can start on the bottle chilling in the fridge.

If you can afford it ,maybe hire a cleaner?

We could for a few hours and we did have one occasionally before lockdown. It would probably help to get someone to come more regularly. Agree with the posters who said DH should pay. I’ll steal his cards and set up a direct debit while he’s sleeping. No point in unnecessary arguments, after all.

So you both cook at night? Would one cooking - the other one clearing up work?

DH is an incredibly faddy eater atm with a very short list of things he will eat (mostly steamed fish, steamed vegetables, lentils and other pulses). Even sausages… he’ll only eat one low fat brand . Got to be honest, I detest fussy eaters (another black mark against him ) DC and I like the good stuff - burgers, mac n’ cheese, fish and chips, roast chicken, chilli, moussaka. So that’s why we tend to eat separately. Also DH works late (usually 9/10pm) and doesn’t eat till he’s finished work, while I feed DC at 6pm. We do try to eat together as a family on weekends.

You know the funny thing? DH loves cooking shows…He watches around five hours a week (Masterchef, Bake-off when it was on, Great British Menu, that sort of thing). And yet he never cooks! For that alone, I should change the locks.

Would your workload go up or down if he moved out?

It’s finely balanced, but probably up. We’re both wfh at the moment (I work part-time, study part-time, he works full-time long hours, DC at nursery part-time). Tbf, he is very helpful with playing with DC in his coffee breaks, wrangling him upstairs when he’s grumpy, doing bathtime and taking him some of the time so I can work. He takes DC out for a good chunk of the weekend.

You could even reward him for good behaviour. Like a star chart, but he gets sausages or a wank or whatever men are interested in now Top Gear’s gone a bit shit.

I think I’ll put up star charts for him and DC on the fridge, next to DC’s potty-training chart. DC is actually pretty good at cleaning up messes. “Mess, Mummy, mess, need a cloth”. So I might get DC to clean up daddy’s mess and then give him stars and write on the fridge – ‘Gold star for putting daddy’s shoes by the door’. If that doesn’t shame DH into action, nothing will!

Have you tried just talking to him? A proper, serious chat.

We do need to talk. It’s just been difficult to find the time and headspace. The last few months have been mental. @BertieBotts, thanks, that’s really useful advice and going to try to implement some of it.

Does he make the effort to have sex?

Neither of us have made any effort the past few months. It’s been survival. I’ve been crystal clear I’d prefer a Twix or a neck massage.

@HiddenTheRemote

It really doesn't sound as though your relationship is irretrievable, though, if I were you, I'd delay having any other children for a while, until there's more of an levelling-up in your mutual expectations of each other, following the the arrival of your adorable bombshell baby into what sounds like an extremely laissez faire lifestyle before.

Agree with the posters who said DH should pay. I’ll steal his cards and set up a direct debit while he’s sleeping. No point in unnecessary arguments, after all.

DH loves cooking shows…He watches around five hours a week (Masterchef, Bake-off when it was on, Great British Menu, that sort of thing). And yet he never cooks! For that alone, I should change the locks.

So I might get DC to clean up daddy’s mess and then give him stars and write on the fridge – ‘Gold star for putting daddy’s shoes by the door’. If that doesn’t shame DH into action, nothing will!

"Does he make the effort to have sex?"

Neither of us have made any effort the past few months. It’s been survival. I’ve been crystal clear I’d prefer a Twix or a neck massage.

I've nothing more to really add, OP. I just wanted to second the person who said you should write for a living. Have you considered a blog, or similar? You have a wonderful writing style and a way of putting your life across in your posts. 🌹

Yes, your post about Facebook is absolutely spot on!! I try to be a bit unedited on there - I don't clean up or only post the tidy photos, I'm honest about the fact my 22mo doesn't sleep through the night. But I would feel mean/ungrateful/exploitative if I was posting the worst moments on there. I do talk about them with my mum friends but you tend not to mention it to people who don't have kids yet because they would judge you :o Which is awful really, isn't it?? You can't prepare people because they don't get it and they think oh you're being very harsh on your kids or you're not handling this correctly or whatever.

But yeah. You just have to figure it out as you go along really.

Get a cleaner and make sure the booking is for when he's there. (And has nothing to do)

The sheer awkwardness most people feel watching a stranger clean up after them while they sit on thier arse works wonders 😂

No idea why a partner doing it though seems 100% acceptable to most

The key to having an actual constructive discussion on a topic that usually turns into an argument BTW, it sounds a bit wanky but it does work. And please excuse my shocking abuse of metaphors.

You have to approach it differently. Usually when you enter into something that ends up as an argument it's because you've got a result you want to achieve in mind and see a direct route to it in your head and you go to explain this to your partner and they go well hang on a minute, no, we're not doing it like that. They have another route in mind and possibly an entirely different destination/result. The conversation devolves into each of you stubbornly pushing forward with "No, MY route is right, see, this is why." And neither of you get anywhere. Or you go around in circles forever going a bit of your route, a bit of his.

So if you want to have a discussion instead of an argument, turn it around. He has an agenda, you have an agenda. Neither of them is objectively more right, they're just different. If you're focused on pushing your own to the exclusion of his you're not listening to each other. What you want to do instead is approach the discussion with the mindset of "I want to understand what your plan is, what your destination/aim is, and why". If you can do this successfully then you find yourself at a point where you've essentially got a full map between you with two different routes and two different destinations on it. And usually, if you're a fairly good match as people, which quite often if you've decided to have DC together you are, it's just that the stress and tiredness and hormonalness of young DC have made you forget that - if you're fairly similar in some ways you'll actually find that you both want to end up in roughly the same place. Not exactly, but close enough that you can actually just adjust the pin on the map to be close enough to both of you and genuinely be happy with it. And then all you have to do is decide how you're going to get there.

Now sometimes you'll look at your map and he's trying to get to the seaside whereas you are trying to get to the forest. They're on opposite sides of the map and they seem totally incompatible. That's when you'll probably want to look at they why part - why does he want this, what's most important about it to him, why do you want that, what's most important about it. And maybe you'll find there's a nice lake somewhere on a meadow that meets both of your needs and it works. Or otherwise, you can go to the forest this week and the beach next weekend. Or you can make some kind of round trip. If you actually like each other, you'll figure it out once you actually understand what's important to the other one. But you can't get to that point if you're just stubbornly pushing forwards with forest or nothing.

@BertieBotts. you tend not to mention it to people who don't have kids yet because they would judge you

I would so have judged you!

I was such a good parent before I had children. My imaginary children never ran away, got dirty or had tantrums in public. They preferred kale to chocolate. I could take them to nice restaurants and they would sit quietly and discuss philosophical questions. Everyone complimented me on their perfect manners.

Meanwhile, DS is chewing my foot. He thinks it's hilarious...

@Happynow001. Aww, thanks...Actually, my job at the moment does involve writing, just nothing most people would really want to read . Unless you're interested in niche financial and regulatory issues, that is...

Errrmmm. Thanks HiddenTheRemote but Errmmm - Goodness!! Is that the TIME??!! 😁

Ha ha! I sometimes fall asleep writing...