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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

ATTENTION WELSH MNETTERS - Coronavirus and elderly parents dilemma

132 replies

DMCWelshcakes · 17/06/2020 10:23

Morning all.

Here's my situation:

Parents in their 70s.
One with cancer in remission and the other one very depressed and getting worse by the day.
No local support or friends.
Live in South Wales, not a touristy place.
Massively missing their grandchildren who they've not seen since February.

We live in England.
We've got clear Covid-19 test results this week.
We can get there and back in a day.
We can easily afford a fine.
ANPR at the Bridge will show car as now being resident in England, despite Welsh number plate.

Do I bung the kids in the car, pack a picnic, sanitizer & portable toilet and go spend time with them in a social distanced fashion in an attempt to lift their mood?

YABU = don't go.
YANBU = go but be very careful.

OP posts:
NotEverythingIsBlackandWhite · 19/06/2020 13:01

Drakeford had announced that you must "stay local" for the next two weeks and they are hoping to lift that completely at that time.
He has said that you can travel over 5 miles on compassionate grounds so, OP, you have been given permission to legally visit your parents now.

He has literally just given and an example of someine living over 5 miles away that doesn't need food as their neighbour does their shopping and doesn't need any help with medication as the pharmacy delivers it. However, they haven't seen anyone for 3 months as they live over 5 miles away from family. Their health is suffering as a result of this. People can now travel over 5 miles to visit them on compassionate grounds. I think he said it still has to be socially-distanced outside though.

He also said the rule to "stay local" is a regulation but that the 5 miles is not a regulation. So, people aren't legally restricted to only 5 miles. They should use their discretion.

Bibijayne · 19/06/2020 13:05

Yeah, OP you are fine. Thus qualifies as compassionate.

RedskyAtnight · 19/06/2020 13:08

I'm going to introduce a perspective that I don't think's been mentioned yet.

I think you should go and see your parents (which is allowed on compassionate grounds from Monday) but, if you have someone to leave the children with, you should go on your own.

If your parents are as bad as you say, you should consider that seeing them in person will likely upset your children, which will distress your parents more (my DD, on seeing her grandfather for the first time after his cancer diagnosis was absolutely inconsolable and I know her grandfather just felt awful about this - clearly no fault of his). And, depending on your children's age, they may find only being able to see their GPs through the window after a long drive, to be very difficult.

DMCWelshcakes · 19/06/2020 13:25

@redsky DC are KS2 age and will cope easily with the travelling as they're used to it. Physically my parents look the same as always so it's not like it was when one of them was going through chemo and looked fucking awful. But I am concerned that the leaving will be difficult.

On the other hand it always sucks when we leave their house or they leave ours.

But on compassionate and caring grounds I shall be invoking my plan. Next decision is that of who I take, if anyone.

OP posts:
TabbyMumz · 19/06/2020 14:16

"PennyInMyPocket

The OP is NOT visiting parents for “caring duties” she is visiting on compassionate grounds - which is now allowed from Monday. Got it!!"

No Penny, I would say she is visiting for caring duties, which has always been allowed. For me, caring duties is checking the elderly of vulnerable are ok, providing care, perhaps taking shopping etc. Compassionate grounds is visiting people who have been alone, not necessarily vulnerable. So visiting an elderly relative who is vulnerable, could be caring duties, whereas visiting a friend who can care for themselves and is not vulnerable, just a bit lonely, is compassionate

PennyInMyPocket · 19/06/2020 14:46

I would say she is visiting for caring duties, which has always been allowed. For me, caring duties is checking the elderly of vulnerable are ok, providing care, perhaps taking shopping etc. Compassionate grounds is visiting people who have been alone, not necessarily vulnerable. So visiting an elderly relative who is vulnerable, could be caring duties, whereas visiting a friend who can care for themselves and is not vulnerable, just a bit lonely, is compassionate

Best wipe that egg off your face Tabbymumz. Drakeford has explained what he means by “compassionate grounds”. It is exactly the reason OP is going to visit her parents. Many more will be visiting their parents on Monday on “compassionate grounds” too. You don’t have to if you don’t want to but the option is now there for those who do - MOST people will have a relative who needs a visit on compassionate grounds - whether you like it or not!

He spent most of his “speech” waffling on about the 5 mile rule - that you seem to think doesn’t exist.

Maybe catch up later. You may learn something about the Covid rules in Wales.

TabbyMumz · 19/06/2020 14:55

"Best wipe that egg off your face Tabbymumz. Drakeford has explained what he means by “compassionate grounds”. It is exactly the reason OP is going to visit her parents. Many more will be visiting their parents on Monday on “compassionate grounds” too. You don’t have to if you don’t want to but the option is now there for those who do - MOST people will have a relative who needs a visit on compassionate grounds - whether you like it or not!"
No egg to wipe Penny, he has ALWAYS said people can travel for caring for the vulnerable, which is what the op would have been doing. I havent watched Drakeford yet, but his example is where no food needed as a neighbour gets it, and they get medicine delivered. That doesnt mean they dont need caring duties. You just dont get it. You seem determined not to believe that people have always been allowed for caring duties. I dont think you've been reading what the op said either.

Saranvenya · 19/06/2020 14:55

Yet another Welsh resident here and I say go just be careful.
Live not far from the border but further than 5 miles and have to travel into England every day for work as does my son, I've not stopped work and as someone pointed out the traffic is heavier now then when we all went into lockdown but neither of us has ever been stopped!
Not saying that I think there should be free travel atm but if you only go to your parents, don't stop on the way, don't go out of their garden then I really can't see the harm.

TabbyMumz · 19/06/2020 14:59

"You don’t have to if you don’t want to but the option is now there for those who do - MOST people will have a relative who needs a visit on compassionate grounds - whether you like it or not!"

This is a very strange sentence Penny. Why would you say I dont have to if I dont want to? I've already visited mine. Quite a lot recently actually, on caring grounds. So there is no "dont want to," very strange. Also very strange to say "if I like it or not" of course I'd want people to visit their families, why wouldnt I. It's you who havent wanted people to, not me?!

Msmcc1212 · 19/06/2020 15:14

The rules are there for a reason. Don’t travel to Wales. You are likely to be turned back.

Msmcc1212 · 19/06/2020 15:17

If everyone who is in this situation (I am too) travelled then what would it be like? No one despite Dominic Cummings twattery, has the right to do their own thing. They must have people locally that can call in on them?

TheGardenFairy · 19/06/2020 15:18

Another interesting update from our First Minister. Stay home, stay local. Stay within 5 miles from home blah blah blah 🙄 The good news is he is now allowing me to visit my mum 22 miles away. Her mental health is suffering terribly from not having weekly contact with her family. She is being cared for medically by carers going in several times a day. I have daily updates on her condition and have travelled to her twice during the last 3 months and my pocket is £60 lighter. Thank you Drakeford. Your rules truly are draconian 🤬

I was hoping he would mention a timescale of when I can resume caring for my grandchildren for their mother to return to work. No mention of that but I’m sure he’ll get around to it when he realises parents can’t return to work if their children are not of school age. I wonder how long that will take? Probably the week after Nicola Sturgeon gives her update on this matter. I’m not up to date on Scottish rules. Can Scottish grandparents care for their grandchildren yet?

Drakeford said he can’t wait to visit Pembrokeshire. News for you Drakeford. The last person Pembrokeshire wants to see right now is you. Muppet 😤

DMCWelshcakes · 19/06/2020 15:35

@Msmcc1212 - it's heartbreaking but they really don't. Most of their friends are either dead or in a worse state than them. The ones that don't fall into those categories are all busy with their own local family members.

It's a horrible situation not to have people that they can call on. They have active lives, travel all over the world and have lots of acquaintances, but no actual friends. Was exactly the same when one was going through cancer treatment. People phoned the other parent up for the gory details but did fuck all to help.

OP posts:
PennyInMyPocket · 19/06/2020 16:01

TabbyMumz You are such a martyr. Fair play to you.

Meanwhile in the real world people who are, genuinely, in need of daily medical care are provided with it, from medically trained staff - my own parents included.

Your scenario bears no resemblance to OP’s. If her parents needed to be cared for she would either make provision, locally, moved in with them or driven from England to Wales, daily, way before 3 months to provide the care they need.

It seems you can not distinguish between “care” and “compassion”.

My neighbour cares, daily, for her elderly father. He lives within 5 miles. He doesn’t actually need to be cared for. He wants company - as do MOST elderly people, living on their own. Some people think travelling 10 miles, every day, to pick up a newspaper for their parent constitutes “care”.

The fact remains. You are flouting the “rules”. Don’t encourage others to flout the rules too. If we all took your stance and travelled where we want, whenever we want, for spurious reasons we would probably still be locked down now. Thankfully the R rate is dropping drastically. Thanks to the people who travelled only for essential reasons.

OP’s parents are grieving for family contact. That is understandable. Mine are too - as are MOST other elderly people, single parents struggling on their own, toddlers who cannot understand their “new world”, teenagers are suffering. They need their friends. School children have had their world turned upside down and parents like me who are struggling with not seeing their grandchildren, struggling with teenage angst, struggling with hearing elderly, ill parents who cannot make sense of their situation and needing to make sure they are ok.

Your constant ramblings of the 5 mile rule doesn’t exist if you have an elderly relative may or may not be relevant. It depends on how much care your relative actually needs - or not.

This thread is about grandparents needing to see their family. It is not about someone needing to care for her parent. Why do you keep posting about someone needing care? OP hasn’t said she needs to travel miles to provide care for her parents. She has simply said her parents are struggling because they haven’t had contact with their family. Mark Drakeford has made provision for “compassionate visits” today.

The floodgates have been opened. From Monday everyone will be rushing to see their vulnerable relatives. It makes a mockery of “Stay Home” “Stay Local” “Stay within 5 Miles”.

People who don’t have parents, children, grandchildren, student children at breaking point will adhere to the 5 mile rule. I will go and visit my elderly, ill parents on Monday. I won’t make a habit of it. Their medical needs are being catered for. Their needs are of a compassionate nature - as are OP’s parents.

ASimpleLampoon · 19/06/2020 16:24

5 mile restrictions may be lifted from 6 July.check out Welsh gov website

TitianaTitsling · 19/06/2020 16:24

@TheGardenFairy I don't think the gp can (Scotland) so looks like we will become a one salary household .. fuck

TabbyMumz · 19/06/2020 17:23

,"PennyInMyPocket

TabbyMumz You are such a martyr. Fair play to you."
You seem to not know the true meaning of the word Martyr either. You have made up rules and expect people to follow your lead. You are so so wrong.

"Meanwhile in the real world people who are, genuinely, in need of daily medical care are provided with it, from medically trained staff - my own parents included."
What are you saying here? That other people who dont have medical professions visiting them,,, dont need care? You do realise thats slightly odd. Lots of elderly people need checking on, and care, without medical professionals visiting them. You do know that's a possibility, dont you?

"Your scenario bears no resemblance to OP’s. If her parents needed to be cared for she would either make provision, locally, moved in with them or driven from England to Wales, daily, way before 3 months to provide the care they need."
You dont know anything about my scenario, because the most I have told you is that I've travelled a few times to visit mine and that they dont live within 5 miles. All you know about the ops scenario is that one of her parents is in cancer remission and the other has depression. She hasnt told you anymore because it's none of your business, but she has said there is more to it than that. So suffice to say, she fits in the scenario of providing care.

"t seems you can not distinguish between “care” and “compassion”."
It's you that cant distinguish it, I'already explained it.

"My neighbour cares, daily, for her elderly father. He lives within 5 miles. He doesn’t actually need to be cared for. He wants company - as do MOST elderly people, living on their own. Some people think travelling 10 miles, every day, to pick up a newspaper for their parent constitutes “care”."
Well, not me! I know what care means. And it's not providing a paper.

"The fact remains. You are flouting the “rules”. "
Why do you think that? I've been exactly within the rules, thankyou. As I've said, you dont know my scenario.
"Don’t encourage others to flout the rules too."

I'm not, she would be within the rules, as would be travelling for care reasons.

"If we all took your stance and travelled where we want, whenever we want, for spurious reasons we would probably still be locked down now. Thankfully the R rate is dropping drastically. Thanks to the people who travelled only for essential reasons."
I havent travelled where I want for spurious reasons. Neither has the op.

"OP’s parents are grieving for family contact. That is understandable. Mine are too - as are MOST other elderly people, single parents struggling on their own, toddlers who cannot understand their “new world”, teenagers are suffering. They need their friends. School children have had their world turned upside down and parents like me who are struggling with not seeing their grandchildren, struggling with teenage angst, struggling with hearing elderly, ill parents who cannot make sense of their situation and needing to make sure they are ok."
The ops parents are I'll. She has told you that.

"Your constant ramblings of the 5 mile rule doesn’t exist if you have an elderly relative may or may not be relevant. It depends on how much care your relative actually needs - or not."
No it's your understanding of the 5 mile rule that doesnt exist. Please get it into your head that right from the start, people have been able to travel over 5 miles to provide care or for safeguarding the vulnerable or elderly. Why do you not believe that? How many people on here do you need to tell you? Do you understand about safeguarding at all?

"This thread is about grandparents needing to see their family. It is not about someone needing to care for her parent. Why do you keep posting about someone needing care?
Because if youd read the thread properly, youd pick up on the fact that the op has talked about their health and said she us worried about their health, enough that she needs to check on them. Several others on this thread have agreed that she comes under the category of care and safeguarding.

"OP hasn’t said she needs to travel miles to provide care for her parents. She has simply said her parents are struggling because they haven’t had contact with their family. "

No. Wrong again. She went on to say that they have health issues that are complex, significant enough for her to want to check on them and not leave it any longer. Not just because she misses them it they miss her. You are so cruel and have no understanding. She should absolutely visit them to check on them.

"Mark Drakeford has made provision for “compassionate visits” today."
Yes he has and he allowed care visits for the vulnerable 12 weeks ago.

"The floodgates have been opened. From Monday everyone will be rushing to see their vulnerable relatives. It makes a mockery of “Stay Home” “Stay Local” “Stay within 5 Miles”."
Yes it does, but life goes on you know. I think you cant let go of the 5 mile rule.

TheFairyGarden · 19/06/2020 17:46

@TheGardenFairy I don't think the gp can (Scotland) so looks like we will become a one salary household .. fuck

Fuck indeed! 😞 It looks like I’ll be having a family of four moving in soon. This is a horrible situation for most people. We are all suffering in one way or another. It’s not easy is it 🥺
@Tabbymumz Your posts are far removed from Welsh reality. Do yourself a favour and catch up with Drakeford’s latest update. BBC1 at 6.30 should show it.
Everyone has challenges to face at this time. Your naivety proves nothing except your ignorance

Msmcc1212 · 19/06/2020 19:24

I hadn’t realised that you can travel for compassionate reasons now so I think that would fit. Makes me want to go see my mum but she does have support. So hard to be separated.

TitianaTitsling · 19/06/2020 20:45

Sorry fairy am glad you knew l meant you- am so stressed about it. I am NHS but as DH isn't we had our offered childcare place removed.

Elphame · 19/06/2020 21:05

I'm facing the same dilemma - my parents are in their 80s and their health has gone down fast over the last 3 months. DF certainly has depression now and this has been worsened by some desperately needed life enhancing surgery scheduled for next week suddenly being cancelled yesterday after they'd been told to self isolate for the last week.

I'm planning a day trip on Monday on compassionate grounds driving in from England. We'll stay in the garden but I need to check on them.

Lolimax · 19/06/2020 21:10

I'd go. But if you decide you can't or anything I'm near Caerphilly if I can help at all?

TeensArghhh · 20/06/2020 07:09

I’ll be going to visit my mum next week too. She is in her 80’s and not in the best of health. Her cancer treatment has been stopped 😢 I speak to her on the phone every day and she is sounding more and more depressed. Her neighbours are fantastic and make sure she has food in and they keep her company over a cuppa out the garden every day - weather permitting. She gets her medication delivered and has recently agreed to have Wiltshire Farm Food delivered so she only has to microwave it. She is enjoying them - so far

Mum is struggling now as I should think all elderly parents who haven’t seen their family for 3 months are. I keep asking her to move in with us so I can look after her but no she’s much too independent for that. Besides she is shielding, and so am I supposed to be. But she is missing seeing us dreadfully as she is used to seeing myself, my siblings and her adult grandchildren on a regular basis.

Thank goodness we can now see our parents on compassionate grounds. I know some people have taken a loaf of bread to see their parents on the pretence they are taking essentials to a vulnerable person. That’s ok if you live relatively near. My mum lives 150 miles away. But at least now we can all take it in turns to call in on her and keep her spirits up.

DMCWelshcakes · 20/06/2020 07:57

Sympathy to everyone else whose parents are struggling at a distance.

In some ways the beginning of this was easier, even though we were ill and totally confined to the house. We at least have support network that helped us with shopping and medication etc.

OP posts:
DMCWelshcakes · 04/07/2020 11:56

Update on my situation:

We're forming an extended household together on Monday. Smile

This means we all have to follow the rules for both England and Wales but it'll be worth it.

Parent's mental health has really taken a battering and I hope this will help.

OP posts: