ATTENTION WELSH MNETTERS - Coronavirus and elderly parents dilemma

[DMCWelshcakes]

Morning all.

Here's my situation:

Parents in their 70s.
One with cancer in remission and the other one very depressed and getting worse by the day.
No local support or friends.
Live in South Wales, not a touristy place.
Massively missing their grandchildren who they've not seen since February.

We live in England.
We've got clear Covid-19 test results this week.
We can get there and back in a day.
We can easily afford a fine.
ANPR at the Bridge will show car as now being resident in England, despite Welsh number plate.

Do I bung the kids in the car, pack a picnic, sanitizer & portable toilet and go spend time with them in a social distanced fashion in an attempt to lift their mood?

YABU = don't go.
YANBU = go but be very careful.

I've gone across the border several times, it's like the M6!!! There are literally thousands of people going in and out of Wales on a daily basis

It’s pointless the governments putting guidelines in place, in an effort to keep us safe. We may as well all do just what we like.

Pennyinmypocket....you dont seem to be understanding this. The Government didnt say absolutely noone can go in and out of Wales ever. There are a raft of legitimate reasons people can do so, and have been doing. You need to be educated yourself on this. Have you really been sat there for the whole of lockdown thinking noone has crossed the border. Think about it, lots of people live in Wales and work in England and vice versa, so will be travelling daily to and fro, legitametly. Lots of people will have people they need to care for on either side of the border so will be travelling aross for that reason. So when I say it's like the M6, I mean people travelling into Wales legally and within the guidelines. If you need to care for your family within Wales, or take them food etc, you can. You have always been able to do this!

Mumsnet is full of people insisting people stick to rules that they have made up.

Fingers crossed Drakeford gives a little more leeway tomorrow, carefully and evidence based.

I would go. They won't be using anpr for covid control. That's not how the police work in this country. We live near Wales and have driven in and out for various reasons several times over the last 3 months. We have never even seen a police car. You might be more likely to be stopped in a national park with a car full of camping gear, but around non touristy towns, highly unlikely.

Pennyinmypocket....you dont seem to be understanding this

I understand perfectly fine thank you.

If anyone can travel wherever and for whatever reason why is Drakeford droning on, every day, to remind us we must stay within 5 miles from home. If rural we can travel further for shopping and essentials. Further meaning a few more miles. As far as it takes to do a normal supermarket shop. Definitely not the distance from home to England - unless we live right on the border. Then 5 miles into England is fine, or whatever the distance usually travelled for food shopping.

We are allowed to travel for work.

People in Wales who live 15 miles from their grandchildren, parents, siblings, in laws, friends.... are unable to visit them, unless they have to travel 15 miles for essentials. We are allowed to meet up with another family (only if they are able to keep social distance) within 5 miles, or however many miles it takes to travel for essentials, outdoors - but not indoors.

5 miles is “a rule of thumb” because in rural areas we have to travel further than 5 miles for essential shopping and work.

Of course some people interprete this as “My parents are elderly and ill. I’ll take the kids and travel as far as it takes to raise my parents spirits. They are missing their grandchildren see. We can get there and back in a day. They are not In need of care, as such, but they would be so happy to see their grandchildren”.

It is likely shops in Wales will be given the go ahead to open tomorrow. I don’t think Drakeford will change the 5 mile travel rule though.

I live in Wales work in England not seen a single person being stopped in rush hour.

They only topping at odd times. Go with the commuters and your fine

Dos I weld eich rhieni, mae nhw'n angen chdi, jest peidiwch a stopio i siopa a. y. y. b yng Nghymru de. Syth yna a syth nol.

I would definitely go. It's unlikely you'll be stopped. I don't think Drakeford will change the 5 mile rule tomorrow either unfortunately - but I hope I'm wrong. It's ridiculous - possibly opening non-essential shops and opening schools but we can't see our families? It makes me very cross. I'm in a similar situation to you OP with my elderly parents, but the other way around - I need to drive out of Wales into England. I've already decided that if Drakeford doesn't lift this 'stay local' 5 mile rule on Friday then I'm just breaking it anyway. I pose no risk driving into England to see my elderly parents, sitting in their garden whilst keeping 2 metres apart from them then driving home, back to Wales on the same day. It's much riskier going to the local parks around here which are very busy because everyone's trying to stay within 5 miles or so. Good luck.

Who knows what Drakeford will decide now. BBC reports that the 5 mile travel guide will not be reviewed until the 6th of July. But non essential shops are opening on Monday. That seriously fucks a lot of people off as my local Tesco is 6.8 miles away yet it will be frowned upon should want to go to Debenhams! Opening the shops but still restricting travel for rural dwellers is a kick in the teeth.

It looks like they are planning to lift it on the 6th (but would like to leave us in maximum uncertainty, because of course that's great for our mental health). www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/stay-local-five-mile-rule-18449346

But, OP, I for one would not fault you for going now.

If you've not already gone. Throw your kids in the car & go. Your parents need you.
You know your safe by your tests your parents are safe from shielding.
You've done a calculated risk on it. Now drive x

Just don't wander around when your here...our levels are really low now

I don't think she's proposing to wander round, just go on a welfare visit out and back to elderly parents who she is concerned are deteriorating.

Necessary care has always been allowed. And a first visit only after nearly 14 weeks of restrictions does not suggest OP has been taking the piss

I really want to see mine too..i am just over the border. Just want to go for the day..not a touristy area at all. Miss them so much. I would love them to relax it today but looking at the article it looks like 6th. At least we have a date now. But it means not being able to get home until the following weekend due to work so still 3 weeks away.

From the 6th of July you can come and go as you please.

You can also go to 2nd homes, caravans, chalets etc.

From the 13th July you can book holidays in Wales.

Shops open from Monday.

Wales will be open again in 3 weeks. Hurrah!

(I'm not looking forward to the A55 being rammed but if you want to come you can).

There you go. 100% of people in Wales want to see a family member on “compassionate” grounds. So from Monday everyone do what you like.

What is the point of Drakeford’s rambling on about 5mile “stay local” rule being lifted on July 6th? Clearly everyone will be travelling where they like on Monday.

He is also planning on reopening self catering holiday properties - just in time for MP’s and AM’s to scuttle off to their second homes for Summer 🤔 Shame as I have enjoyed having the local beach to myself over the past few weeks. Prepare for invasion 😞

"There you go. 100% of people in Wales want to see a family member on “compassionate” grounds. So from Monday everyone do what you like."
But that's not true. Not 100% of people in Wales have families they want to see, or on compassionate grounds, and of those who do....a lot of their families will live local to them anyway, so no priblem...and a lot of their families will be in England. Pennyinmypocket..you make a lot of sweeping statements which makes people think you dont know what you are talking about.

@Tabbycatz Everyone (ok maybe not everyone but most) in Wales will not have seen family members throughout lockdown. You may live within the recommended 5 mile travelling distance from your family members. Not everyone does.

In rural Wales you can travel 5 miles before seeing another house!

But I guess it’s ok for people from England to travel into Wales to see their parents, whereas until MD’s announcement today welsh people have been unable to see parents, who live outside the 5 Mile “rule”.

People on here keep stating “Just do it. You won’t get stopped”. Bollox! People get stopped all the time, hence why they haven’t just “Done it”.

As for Welsh people travelling across England - they can! If they have to travel into England for work or essentials they then abide by the rules for England - which is travel where you want. The rule is very different in Wales. If a person living in Wales cannot travel outside the 5 mile “rule” to visit elderly parents why is it ok for someone to travel from England, into Wales, and then 60 miles (or whatever) through Wales to visit parents?

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/lockdown-five-mile-rule-drakeford-18450592?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wales_main

Shwmae!

That's good news as far as I'm concerned and it gives us something to work towards.

I disagree that my parents wouldn't be receiving any care. Mental health issues are as valid as physical health conditions. It's a long story as to why this deterioration is so worrying and I'm not going to go into it as it's nobody's business. But suffice to say that it's been bad enough to make me consider doing this for the first time in 3 months of complete adherence to the rules.

My plan is, and always has been, drive down, park on drive, enter garden by side gate, sit in garden, see parents (through window or otherwise) leave garden via side gate, get into car on drive and then drive straight home. (Camping toilet to be used behind the shed for privacy, take it with us when we leave.)

I've just realised that that's literally taking the piss over the border...

"PennyInMyPocket

@TabbycatzEveryone (ok maybe not everyone but most) in Wales will not have seen family members throughout lockdown.

That's where I think you are wrong. An awful lot of people live within 5 miles of their family. Also an awful lot of people who dont live within 5 miles of their family, have been able to visit them for caring duties, which is allowed. You cant use the term everyone or most, just because you fit in a category that doesnt live near their family and havent visited them. Also for the people who live more rural, he said the five miles doesnt matter, because for some, food shops might be 10 miles away!!

Also, lots of other people have parents in England, that they need to care for and get shopping for etc, who live more than 5 miles from the border...these people have also been able to do that, under the rules.

"You may live within the recommended 5 mile travelling distance from your family members. Not everyone does."

I dont.

"But I guess it’s ok for people from England to travel into Wales to see their parents,"

Yes that's correct, if it's for reasons within the rules like caring duties etc.

"whereas until MD’s announcement today welsh people have been unable to see parents, who live outside the 5 Mile “rule”."

No they havent, not all. As I've said, if you have caring duties for them, or need to get them shopping you can go outside the 5 mile rule.

"People on here keep stating “Just do it. You won’t get stopped”. Bollox! People get stopped all the time, hence why they haven’t just “Done it”."

Not everyone does get stopped there are too many people allowed to travel for the police to stop everyone travelling. In my area, the police have been round tourist places, everywhere else you dont see them for dust.

"As for Welsh people travelling across England - they can! If they have to travel into England for work or essentials they then abide by the rules for England - which is travel where you want. The rule is very different in Wales. If a person living in Wales cannot travel outside the 5 mile “rule” to visit elderly parents why is it ok for someone to travel from England, into Wales, and then 60 miles (or whatever) through Wales to visit parents?

People within Wales can go outside the 5 mile rule for caring duties. That has always been the case.

Penny...I think the bit you dont seem to understand or take on board is that right from the beginning in England and Wales people have been able to travel for caring duties. So in Wales, if you had caring duties for a family member you could have absolutely gone outside the 5 mile rule to visit them.. Theres no person in Welsh Government who could say people couldnt do that, because as you can imagine, youd have vulnerable people stranded left right and centre and possibly dying.

The OP is NOT visiting parents for “caring duties” she is visiting on compassionate grounds - which is now allowed from Monday. Got it!!

What's the difference between caring duties and compassionate grounds?

Genuine question.

@DMCWelshcakes - he's just clarified that your position is considered compassionate. From Monday though, apparently. 2 days make a big difference. Go for it - I absolutely would.
I'm sorry, he's a dictatorial tosspot. I've no respect for him now. He's ignored the impact on mental health, the huge jump in the suicide rate, and anything else that doesn't suit him. People have had enough now, and fewer and fewer people are going to adhere to his decisions.
How hospitality is going to recover, I don't know.