ATTENTION WELSH MNETTERS - Coronavirus and elderly parents dilemma

[DMCWelshcakes]

Morning all.

Here's my situation:

Parents in their 70s.
One with cancer in remission and the other one very depressed and getting worse by the day.
No local support or friends.
Live in South Wales, not a touristy place.
Massively missing their grandchildren who they've not seen since February.

We live in England.
We've got clear Covid-19 test results this week.
We can get there and back in a day.
We can easily afford a fine.
ANPR at the Bridge will show car as now being resident in England, despite Welsh number plate.

Do I bung the kids in the car, pack a picnic, sanitizer & portable toilet and go spend time with them in a social distanced fashion in an attempt to lift their mood?

YABU = don't go.
YANBU = go but be very careful.

[HughGrantsHair]

I think I'd wait until Friday. They'll probably announce a change to the 5mile rule then anyway.

[poshme]

I'd go.
Absolutely.

I have family in South wales who've needed to travel for work. None of them have been stopped at all.

Can you avoid the bridge by going via Gloucester instead if you're worried about being stopped there?

[DMCWelshcakes]

@Spudley13 fair point. Unfortunately doesn't change the fact that I have elderly and unwell parents with no support who are visibly deteriorating every time I speak to them and I'm worried sick.

Does anyone have any practical suggestions on how to manage this if I don't travel down?

[Wyewaving]

I’ve driven from Monmouthshire to Cardiff twice during lock down (once for a medical appointment) and on the second visit the M4 was noticeably busier. You’re not likely to be stopped, I only saw one police car on the second visit and none on the first.

I’d go.

[AlohaMolly]

Just sticking my oar in again - my PILs next door neighbour lost her husband the week of lockdown. Her daughter lives in London and eventually the elderly woman’s GP told her she should invite her daughter up to stay because her mental health was declining so badly.

Care of the vulnerable has always been an exception to the rule. I know your parents love your DC, but ultimately you’re their daughter - you can best give them comfort etc and maybe they’d even be a bit more comfortable about opening up to you if the children aren’t there? Could you go by yourself?

[Favouriteworstnightmare]

@DMCWelshcakes

Does your parents local authority have a community support department who could call and chat with them? Or a local charity?

You must be terribly worried, my family are 80 miles away also in Wales but we fall foul of the 5mile / Stay Local rule. If you can, wait to see what the announcement is on Friday and make your mind up from there.

Reduce the risks best you can but it does sound like you could visit under providing care for vulnerable adults but personally I’d go alone and maybe FaceTime your family whilst you’re there?

[Wineoclockinwales]

We have almost the same situation going the other way over the bridge . We are going to make the journey up and back not staying overnight this weekend. We haven't seen Dad since Christmas. Come here , see your parents x

[PennyInMyPocket]

I think its moved on to "stay local", hasnt it

Stay local doesn’t mean travel from England to Wales does it?

I’m in Wales. I have parents, a daughter, son and grandchildren living within Glamorgan. I’m not in Glamorgan. I am around 30 miles away. I cannot visit my family members. Why would I welcome someone travelling from England to visit relatives in Wales?

We can all throw a loaf of bread and a pint of milk in the car and pretend we are on a mission of mercy. Kind of defeats the point doesn’t it?

[Disfordarkchocolate]

I'd go. You are supporting someone vulnerable.

[ifancyagreencard]

@DMCwelshcakes

Being away from elderly parents sucks, I really feel for you; I'm in the same boat. But can I chuck another possibility in the pot? Will the visit make things worse for your DP?

I'm in SE England, widowed DM is a couple of miles north of Cardiff. She is being brave on the phone/FaceTime but I know how much she is masking. She's not experienced human touch since March, not even when her much loved cousin died. She is simply existing.

What she is 100% adamant about is that my busting lockdown and visiting her will make things worse. She says that knowing that she can't touch me and will have to watch as I drive away again would crucify her.

Would your visit have the potential to make your DP upset that they can't hug the kids, give you a hug and a cuppa? Make them feel even more "trapped" that you can leave?

There no easy answer and I am WAY past hoiking my judgy lockdown pants up; I support sensible people making the right decisions for their families. But I just wanted to share my personal circumstances to add to your thought processes.

[MushroomTree]

Following with interest and I'm in a very similar situation but need to go from Hampshire to Pontardawe next week.

I spoke to the Welsh police who said it's highly unlikely I'll be stopped anyway and if I am then my reason for visiting (helping my mum move back to Hampshire - she can't manage it alone) is a valid one so they can't see an issue with it.

[TabbyMumz]

"PennyInMyPocket

"I think its moved on to "stay local", hasnt it"

Stay local doesn’t mean travel from England to Wales does it?"

Well it can do, because it depends how far you are travelling and what the reason is. Thousands of people cross the border daily for work, for shopping, and for visiting and providing care.

[TabbyMumz]

"Why would I welcome someone travelling from England to visit relatives in Wales?"
Sorry dont mean to sound rude, but it doesnt really matter if you welcome them of not. She is permitted to travel to see them for caring duties, as you would be if your family needed care.

[DMCWelshcakes]

@PennyInMyPocket I'm not considering this just for shits and giggles or because I've run out of Glengettie. I'm extremely worried about my parents and I can't think what else to do to make it better.

@ifancyagreencard That thought has also occurred to me. The last thing I want to do is make them feel worse.

@Favouriteworstnightmare Hadn't thought of that. Will look into it. Thank you.

[killerofmen]

Hello

I want to quote directly from Welsh Government guidance to help you make up your mind.

Does stay local mean I can’t leave my local area at all?

No, you can leave your local area if you have a “reasonable excuse” to do so – this includes going to work or using public services that are not available locally.

Why can’t I visit members of my family who live outside my local area?

You can leave your local area to provide care for or to help someone who needs it, such as an older person, a child or a vulnerable adult, though you should consider whether there are alternative sources of support available.

[PennyInMyPocket]

Well it can do, because it depends how far you are travelling and what the reason is. Thousands of people cross the border daily for work, for shopping, and for visiting and providing care

My family who live in Glamorgan are around 45 mins drive from the Severn Bridge (or Prince of Wales Bridge as it has recently been renamed). That’s more than 5 miles - no?

Whatever.... if OP has a mind to flout the rules she will. Hope she realises that there are police blocks at various points into Wales. In fact I have been pulled over, Twice, whilst driving within the 5 miles restriction.

Call it what you want. A drive from England to Wales is in breach of Welsh rules.

A pint of milk and a loaf of bread won’t make any difference.

Welsh rules state 5 miles travelling distance from home because 5 miles is considered to be local. The rules are there so nobody transfers the virus between areas. Like it or lump it. The rule is there for good reason.

I’m not a Drakeford fan but I can see his logic here.

[MrGruber]

Similar here ..
....but although my head would definitely make the decision to go with my heart , & you are being amazingly careful and considered about it , I have learned to always give my instincts the final say & for some reason I feel concerned for you, -

So sorry but I would say please think ( yet ) again , because the recent negative tests may not be the whole story on this occasion

Hope so much you csn help them find a way of getting through a couple of weeks more even though seems impossible atm and that yourdeeply depressed parent is in a temporary trough , though that must seem even more unlikely . . but they are much closer to seeing you now , even if a little longer

[Cagedbirdsinging]

Mushroomtree checked with the police who told her that her reason to travel was valid . I'd do this ; it sounds like your parents are really struggling .
Gyrrwch yn ddiogel x

[Wynston]

I would consider calling the police station closest to you're parents and asking their advice on the matter. (Apparently someone who lives away did this in the village I live next to and they said it was ok-they came and worked on the house they are doing up. They really annoyed the others in the village.)
I wouldn't begrudge anyone making sensible decisions at this stage.
Like others have said the announcement will come on friday.
Im finding it very hard listening to everyone saying that wales is closed and to stay out-i understand it I just feel so hypocritical when I have relied on the tourists to pay my bills, put food on the table and a roof over our heads.
I hope that you're parents will be ok.

[TinyTornado]

Go. Get your lies at the ready. You have ‘essential care to provide’ and ‘medical needs’ to meet. You are allowed this even in Wales.
I’ve sneaked over the border a couple of times for family visits (England to North Wales) no questions asked

[ImaPinkToothbrush]

Dos Cariad, a paid a phoeni amdano fo.

At the end of the day we have to think about what the restrictions are for. They are to prevent the spread of the virus. If you can be confident you are being careful, you've recently tested negative, and you won't be taking any risks while you're there - then the risk of you passing on the virus are negligible.

I know of several people who have regularly crossed the border for work reasons. Never been stopped.

The police are reasonable - if you are stopped, and you explain you're travelling because you're worried about vulnerable elderly parents, you're not staying over, you're travelling back the same day... I imagine they'll be fine with that.

I would wait to see what Drakeford announces this Fri, hope for the best, but go anyway.

Is it an option for just you to go, then in a few weeks when things might be easier, take your children to see them?

[DMCWelshcakes]

Diolch yn fawr i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu i'r sgwrs!

Dwi'n mynd i aros nes fory cyn penderfynu.

Thanks to everyone who's contributed to the discussion.

I'm going to wait until tomorrow before deciding.

I really am grateful for the space to think all of this through. It's not an easy decision to make and I'm very aware that there are rules for a reason. I'm glad that people have got cross at me because it shows that it's not as simple as "of course you should do it! Why aren't you there already, you appalling daughter?"

Anyway, I'm staying put for now & awaiting further developments.

[AudaCityLimits]

Aaaaah this is so difficult. But no, I wouldn't do it. My own Dad is vulnerable and depressed and scarily quiet at the moment. We both live in Wales and I can't go and see him. It wouldn't be right. I have thought about it, but everyone has some form of exceptional circumstance.
It won't be long now.

Mae'n ddrwg gen i dy fod ti'n gorfod cario baich y pryder yma- siwr fod o'n ofnadwy. Edrych ar ôl dy hun OP x

[TabbyMumz]

"Call it what you want. A drive from England to Wales is in breach of Welsh rules."
No it isnt. It depends on what the reason is it's perfectly acceptable to come into Wales to provide care for people who need it, as someone has quoted above. It is also reasonable to come into Wales for work and other reasons. You need to familiarise yourself with the rules, not just keep trotting out blindly that people cant come into Wales They can.

[TabbyMumz]

Pennyinmypocket........the rules say this:

You can leave your local area to provide care for or to help someone who needs it, such as an older person, a child or a vulnerable adult, though you should consider whether there are alternative sources of support available.

I've gone across the border several times, it's like the M6!!! There are literally thousands of people going in and out of Wales on a daily basis.