A few home truths for my adult ds

[Carpathian2]

It's more of a wwyd really.

My eldest son is 35 and single. He is doing OLD and, although he's had a couple of short term relationships, nothing major. His confidence has taken bit of a bashing and he's now wondering if the problem is him.

Thing is, I think it is him. Every conversation I have with him ( we speak a couple of times a week on the phone and I haven't seen him since lockdown) is one sided. He interrupts me, talks over me and as soon as I start talking about me he shuts down, does my head in! I've told him he does this quite a few times but he doesn't take it in. It's quite draining.

Now he's asking me if I think he's doing anything to put people off. I don't want to knock his confidence any more, but he seems to have little self awareness. If I met him and I had a conversation like he has with me I would back off too.

So, my wwyd is: do I gently tell him a few home truths, or leave him to figure it out for himself? I know he's an adult but I just want to see him happy.

Could you suggests he asks the women he's had short-term relationships with for feedback? As another poster has mentioned, he may behave differently with you than he does with other people - so their feedback might be more useful for him...if they're willing to be honest.

Another angle. Does he do the sort of job where he has to give presentations and/or listen to them, perhaps go to conferences sometimes? If so, he will understand the importance of knowing who your audience is, therefore what aspect of your work they will be interested in.

He may have had the mind-numbing experience of sitting through a presentation that had clearly been prepared for a different audience and lazily recycled. There's nothing so disrespectful of your audience as that and, generally, as not starting with them and thinking about what will interest them, when prepapring your own presentation.

So, the first few dates are his opportunity to find out who his audience is. Once he's established that, he can start to think about which stories, topics etc will interest her, with more confidence.

People can be surprising. There would be nothing worse, on a first date, than being treated as 'generic woman' i.e. 'I can end your sentences for you already because I know what you're going to say'.

I'm really bad for doing this. I have become more and more aware of it recently. I definitely do it more with my mum who avoids talking to me often. I know when I think ahead and focus on asking her questions it goes better.
One thought, does he live alone? Perhaps he goes long periods without talking to anyone.

OP, I would also second giving him some coaching. Or getting him to sign up with a dating coach or singles coach for some unbiased advice.

It's defnitely true that people behave differently with different people. Parents often lack any insight into the way their DC / adult DCs are with their friends - usually underestimating their social skills. Parents often baby their teen / adult DC, who respond accordinly. So your domestic relationship with him could be very different from the way he is with friends.

Is it possible that there have been other reasons entirely why his relationships have failed? Has he asked the women concerned? Did they tell him at the time? Do his freinds have any insight or advice?

Though, close friends are often the worst people to go to for advice, as they value the friendship over truth. Acquiantances are better, for an unbiased reaction.

@Eddielzzard

I'd suggest doing a role play with him. Pretend to be his date, and when he talks over you or interrupts, pull him up on it. Even if it's every 30 seconds. Yes, his confidence is low, but it'll keep getting lower if no-one tells him.

I think this is a really good way of dealing with it. It enables you to see if he is asking questions about his date as well. If he only answers questions but doesn't ask questions that's really not great in terms of a date as it leaves them thinking he isn't actually interested in me

Can you ask him about his last date. Get him to tell you all about her, her job, interest, family, politics, education etc etc. Maybe point out that if there are any gaps it's because he hasn't listened enough or shown enough interest.

I would tread really gently. Everything I have read re OLD is that you need a thick skin, people often go through lots before meeting the/a "right" person. So you don't really know he is doing anything wrong? Maybe you as his mum bear the brunt of him being lonely at other times. I really wouldn't say anything now. Many people are quite fragile at the moment.

Definitely say something OP. Some brilliant ideas here. Looking forward to hearing how it goes!

He hasn't heard you when you've tried to tell him gently, though, so be prepared to be less gentle in order to actually get through to him. Or try a different way of approaching it.

Say, "It's not you as a person, DS, but it probably is about the way you interact with people." Make it about the behaviour (which is less personal) and then point him in the right direction - listening, responding, not dominating the conversation, etc.

I'm like this too, I don't mean to be, it's ADHD with me, I'm also dyspraxic and dyslexic, and have slow processing skills.
It's hard to communicate at times, it's not one of my strengths at all.
if you also have a low IQ it gets harder
Tell him and suggests he gets some help, from where I don't know, but I can empathise.

I am really careful not to do the armchair diagnosis thing but I remember reading on another thread about videos designed to help adults with autism with social skills. Even if he is not on the spectrum it might be helpful for him. Does anyone recognise what I mean?

Get him to talk you through how he chats to his dates so he can kind of 'discover' it as self-discovery leads to more change. Like, what can he tell you about the last woman he liked, what did he talk to her about, were there silences, who started the conversation mostly, who dominated, how did he flirt, how did he show respect, how did he indicate he hoped to meet again. Does he focus on looks or personality. And get him to ask one of his female friends too.

I wouldn’t be phrasing it as “yeah the problem is definitely you”, I would start by asking about how the dates have gone, what they talked about, and what the woman liked, did for fun, what her views were.

If it turns out that they talked all about him and he knows nothing about the woman except she had a red top on, then feed that back.

I’d also suggest some activity dates, where they can talk about what they are doing (less likely to fill awkward silences with monologues about himself).

I think it’s a bit weird doing a role play date with his mum. He’s not high on confidence as it is; this is added humiliation. Definitely tell him though.

Mind you it might not make a big difference. I have a friend in his early thirties, still lives at home who’s like that. Genuinely a good person, but pointing it out doesn’t work. If you talk to him you just have to phase out when he’s doing a monologue or just tell him to shut up – he doesn’t mind.

Mum to an ASD son and this sounded familiar. It’s kindest to tell him. Teach him practical ways around it, don’t expect him to use his initiative.

The problem with asking how his previous dates went and asking about the women is - he may simply extrapolate.

So his date may only have had the chance to get in the words 'I play golf most weekends' and his brain may well have blasted through that as 'plays golf because she has a demanding job and she likes to relax so she plays golf because all her friends are members of the golf club so she socialises while she's playing and after she's played and it all means that she doesn't have much time at the weekends to do anything else.'

Some people just 'fill in the gaps' with their own interpretations, they don't actually listen to the real reasons...

I live this thread! I wish more men in their 30s had DMs like you. As a 31 year old woman also OLD i have to say this is very common, I've got to the point now where I block and move on if a man doesn't ask me questions about myself in the early messaging stages. I was chatting to a guy the other day who asked me what I did, i said I was just finishing up my PhD and then he didn't ask a single follow up question but bombarded me with photos of the projects he was currently working on in his job (he was an architect)...it was more like watching an episode of grand designs that a two way conversation

Love**

I don't think it sounds like autism. Most men do this. It's sexism

Id say so it in a constructive way. Some one with confidence issues certainly doesn't need knocking down a peg or 2 by 'home truths'. There are ways and means of approaching things.

Do please try a gentle conversation with him. As others say you'll do him a favour. Try not - perhaps - to use accusatory terms such as "too full on" and even try sitting calmly and trying examples "role play" if you will.

We've all been there not getting a two sided conversation and it does not bode well?

@Carpathian2

I agree you have to tell him.

It's one of the least attractive things about meeting ANYONE new, man or woman, friend or romantic interest, when all they do is talk about themselves and don't listen.

It's a kind of social contract - you talk, I listen; then I talk and you listen.
But if one of you doesn't keep the terms of listening, but only wants to talk, then the social contract breaks down.

Very introverted people might be happier to listen than to talk, but it does get very wearing for most people, especially on a "get to know you" date.

Hope he listens!

To full on is not what you described?
Misleading
Be clearer