Are women allowed to be offended by Drag/ women face now then?

[Chosennone]

Things are changing. Strange times. Midst Pandemic. Horrific events in the USA. people are 'waking' up to oppression and inappropriateness within comedy.
If it is no longer seen as acceptable to wear any kind of black costume, seen in LB, LOG, Ant & Dec, surely it is time that a sensible debate could be had on Drag. Is it acceptable? Is it not a mockery of female features for comedy in the same way original blackface was?
If not, why not?

Why don’t you go write to your MP instead of playing silly buggers with a stranger on the Internet?

Why presume posters aren't writing to their MPs as well as posting on the internet? We can multitask.

*So drag queens do not create their own acts? But they do, they don't, yebbut nobut, yebbut nobut, yebbut nobut.

Be coherent!*

They are starting to sound familiar

You can be offended by whatever you like, can’t you? I’m offended by racism and homophobia
And transphobia but drag doesn’t bother me. But if it. Others you, be offended.

This is really interesting.

I was having a conversation with someone about this yesterday and wanted to find some information on misogyny and Drag, but there was precious little when I googled, so I'm glad this has come up and I have some articulately argued points to back up what I was making a rather ham-fisted attempt to express.

Littlejalepeno - a question...

If Matt Lucas decided to try defending one of his black characters by saying he didn't intend offence and lots of other white men (and maybe a few black ones too) agreed with him, would you say 'crack on with that then - you didn't mean any harm' and ignore thousands of black people saying 'we find that grossly offensive?' Who matters?

The motivation behind the imitation doesn't really matter if the people being caricatured or imitated or joked about don't like it or want to accept it.

That is true of all situations except when it is women saying 'we don't like this.'

@CuriousaboutSamphire you honestly think rape culture was created by drag queens? In that case don’t write to your MP, write to your doctor.

@BankofNook that a massive leap of logic. The two situations are very different. I hope you do challenge injustice, but racism is not entertainment. Drag is. When racism has been used as entertainment, like minstrels for example, it has been rightly challenged and eradicated. You can put on a costume but you cannot put on race. So the two things really are quite different.

Don’t forget drag also do caricatures of men.

How dare you even ask this question

Men in drag have rights. You are denying their rights asking this.

I thought ‘Anna Bortion’ would turn out to be a wind-up, but not so.

I feel sick and sad that this man finds it an appropriate drag name.

I loathe drag. I feel that it makes a mockery of gay and transgender people by presenting them as caricatures. I loathed the 'drag queen story times' held around libraries for young children. How does that increase diversity?? What will children take away from it? It was just about a bunch of camp show offs enjoying putting on a show. And the 'right on brigade' all flocked to it (where I live at least) to demonstrate how open minded they all are and on trend. Yet none of them questioned whether it was appropriate or helpful in breaking down stereotypes. I would have had absolutely no objection to a genuine normal transexual sat reading a story to the kids without having to make a big song of dance about it. I think that drag queens do a disservice to all the normal gay/lesbian/transgender people out there who are suffering and just trying to go about their lives as best as possible. As a woman I'm not particularly offended by it. I've not really watched a huge amount. I just don't find it funny.

Good point. Maybe it's time to make a stand.

I also wonder, while we're bringing down the statues, how many statues are out there of men who were abusers of women... Quite a lot, I'd hazard. Perhaps their time is over now too?

@littlejalapeno Wow, so Drag is entertainment???????? But Blackface is racism. Now, could you please explain your logic, because for the life of me, I cannot see how one can be deemed inoffensive entertainment and the other can not.

Yes it is offensive and should be regarded no differently from blackface.

Some drag is problematic but I don’t think that’s a reason to censor all drag. Which isn't what the OP asked.

She asked if women are allowed to be offended by it!

Your answers so far have been that you think its OK, except when it isn't and that saying anything otherwise is silencing!

@maudspellbody

Good question and I’m sure there are different opinions. I do consider black face wrong because it’s mocking race. I don’t find drag offensive because I perceive it as mocking gender stereotypes and gender based assumptions.

Obviously other people fee more attacked than I do and that’s fine.

I think the bbc have made the right move in removing it, just like Disney have removed song of the south.

I can also see why some people find drag problematic. But makeup and dresses And fashion can be changed and don’t make us women, so I don’t see what the problem is with mocking them.

Like with most things critical thinking is key.

Why don’t you go write to your MP instead of playing silly buggers with a stranger on the Internet?

Finally, you have said something worth saying. Took enough time.

littlejalepeno yes, of course we do things other than discuss it online.

I ran a pub for several years which had a regular drag act. One of the first things I did was cancel it.

I talked about it a lot with other women, and know 3 other managers who cancelled the drag acts for their venues.

Im not personally lobbying for it to be banned. Just hoping casual misogyny gets less acceptable and slowly becomes a thing of the past, like casual racism.

Why is there a gender stereotype of genitals smelling of fish, by the way? Does a female penis smell of fish?

I like drag, go Mary Mac!

I kept getting a pop-up on my phone this morning for something called WakeyWakey. One of the two people on screen looked like a panto dame, a real caricature of a woman. And I wondered why, when we’re all being so conscious of BLM and toppling statues of people who are horribly racist by today’s standards, it’s considered absolutely fine to use womanface.

this is not a battle to pick right now. There are things to be angry about, but not this

To eradicate the toxic misogynistic elements, all of it has to stop. When we reach a post-patriarchal era, people will be able to laugh at it again as it will be funny. We’re nowhere near that time yet.

@CuriousaboutSamphire you honestly think rape culture was created by drag queens? In that case don’t write to your MP, write to your doctor. WTF??!! Where did yoi get that hyperbole from?

Defintiely nothing I posted.. and I don't remember anyone other than a poster responding to you the first time you said it conflating those 2 issues (may be wrong there..).

That is something we often see here... TRA pops up, doesn't get the reaction they want so they post it themselves and then froth on about it! Of that is what you are doing, don't bother, we see you!

I can also see why some people find drag problematic. But makeup and dresses And fashion can be changed and don’t make us women, so I don’t see what the problem is with mocking them

Except women are expected to believe that is what makes a woman cos biology is phobic. And how do you excuse the names?

No. Now get in the kitchen and stop pretending to have an opinion. I’ll be doing the thinking in THIS house.

[quote bintang]@Spidey66 LoG is League of Gentlemen[/quote]
thanks bintang x

write to your doctor. Wait a moment! My doctor? Why? Is not liking drag a mental ailment? Is it a sign of good old hysteria?

What? What do you think is wrong with me, besides, well, you know woman ?

Won't somebody help me.... I may be ill........

Drag doesn't offend me personally (not much does, to be honest) but I applaud you, OP, for finding such a fabulous example of hypocrisy!

Surely drag must be as offensive to TRAs as blackface must be to the BAME community? And yet it's very much the 'in' thing at the moment.

I'm in disbelief at what I'm seeing this week. JKR voiced an opinion, which I thought seemed informed, reasonable and above all, something she's perfectly entitled to. But the level of pure vitriol towards her is unbelievable. People are refusing to have civilised debates on the matter, let alone read her essay objectively. Many of my FB friends are baying for her blood, and people like myself (who don't necessarily sit on either side of the fence) don't dare start a conversation about it for fear of being labelled transphobic and denounced ourselves, just for putting an BBC alternative view across. Whayever your feeling on trans rights, well done to JKR for having the balls (no pun intended) to stand her ground, despite knowing what was likely to come her way.