Are women allowed to be offended by Drag/ women face now then?

[Chosennone]

Things are changing. Strange times. Midst Pandemic. Horrific events in the USA. people are 'waking' up to oppression and inappropriateness within comedy.
If it is no longer seen as acceptable to wear any kind of black costume, seen in LB, LOG, Ant & Dec, surely it is time that a sensible debate could be had on Drag. Is it acceptable? Is it not a mockery of female features for comedy in the same way original blackface was?
If not, why not?

If drag really was about mocking gender stereotypes, what progress has it actually led to? Does anyone have any evidence that it's reduced gender stereotyping?

But makeup and dresses And fashion can be changed and don’t make us women,

TRANSPHOBE!!!!!!!!

OMG! TRANSPHOBE!!!

(I'm not brave enough to use the other T word, I doesn't wanna get banned )

I’ll sign anyone’s petition to remove womanface and misogynistic shows from being aired

So I assume white chicks is being pulled too? Two black men dressing up as white women is the same!

TRA pops up, doesn't get the reaction they want so they post it themselves and then froth on about it! Of that is what you are doing, don't bother, we see you!

Yes. Same person each time.

It starts with deliberately 'misunderstanding' something that wasnt actually said, then taking the whole thread off topic with the deliberate misunderstanding, via a bit of obfuscation and then ends up with a nice splash of DARVO.

It’s grim but I wouldn’t want everything that exists already deleted, just stop commissioning that shit going forward.

we as woman are not intitled to be offended by anything.

@CuriousaboutSamphire you know calling me a TRA is just like JKRs detractors calling her a TERF, right?

I am responding as calmly as I can to your goady comments. But I think you just want a punching bag tbh.

I’m a woman who has the greatest sympathy for JKR. Even more sympathy in this current moment after having to deal with you

@SarahTancredi yeah it’s awful and that’s why we should mock it. And I don’t have to excuse the names as I’m not responsible for them. I agree some are horrendous.

Nope. Then you are a snowflake.

Blackface didnt cause racism, or anymones death. But as a society we recognise casual racism leads to far deeper issues.

Mocking and ridiculing people for their race didnt murder anyone. But those attitudes contribute to a society where those murders take place, an we acknowledge its unacceptable.

Likewise, drag portrays females as a costume, a ridiculous idea, rather than real people. It contributes to a society where women are seen as lesser, which enbales the way women are treated, the violence, rapes and murders.

I found the MISOGYNIST!

As predicted...

It's totally offensive. I live in Ireland and have to put up with this prat being hailed as the queen.

Practical example of the negative influence of drag is current trends in makeup followed by women under about 30.. caked on orange foundation, huge fakey drawn on eyebrows, overdone cut-crease style of eye shadow, monster false lashes.. etc. The specific technique of 'baking' on powder ie putting loads on, letting it sit and then brushing off the excess literally came from drag artists. Same with contouring to change the face shape. The crossover people in this flow of ideas are often makeup artist social media influencers like Patrick Starr. Has all this been good for young women?

Likewise, drag portrays females as a costume, a ridiculous idea, rather than real people. It contributes to a society where women are seen as lesser, which enbales the way women are treated, the violence, rapes and murders.

This

@PheasantPlucker1 that’s a really interesting point. What do you think of the idea that some drag is actually mocking gender stereotypes in solidarity with women.

That’s not to say there isn’t drag that also does mock women. I was quite upset by bagga chips performances on the U.K. drag race for the reasons you describe. But I’ve also witnessed drag that is the opposite of that and made me laugh. It’s very har imo to find the line between one and the other.

I think I understand the viewpoint you are coming from.

I'm also willing to believe that drag originated (in it's current form - I'm not talking about men dressing as women in historical theatre, because I think that's something else) from gay men trying to subvert gender stereotypes.

However, I think society has moved on now. There is no need to continue it. Normally, things that are deemed not inclusive are argued against. Sometimes that call for inclusivity goes too far, even. Drag is not inclusive, yet people are largely silent about it. As anyone can see from the weight of opinion on this thread - many women feel excluded, mocked and uncomfortable with it.

So it needs to be brought into the light of day and discussed. At least.

Has all this been good for young women?

It wastes their time and money and makes them look ridiculous. What’s not to like?

@Crystaltree I thought that was due to the Kardashians personally...

@Pertella what did you predict?

No one who uses ‘fishy’ to describe a convincing drag queen is acting in solidarity with women. Misogynistic language is a massive part of drag culture.

I wonder if we'll have a shift on drag? Not because it degrades women (of course) but because it offends trans women. Pantomime dames aren't real trans women and so have no right to their clothes or to appropriate their experiences of oppression.

I wondered this.

The removal of all films, books etc which feature the oppression of black people (even if historically correct - gone with the wind for example).

Does that mean that at some point all references to the oppression of women will be removed.

I think that would be some sort of mass extinction of history.

I'm not sure how to feel about this.

I've never been offended by any I've seen personally, I really rather enjoy it and find many queens a celebration of womanhood, if I'm honest.

you know calling me a TRA is just like JKRs detractors calling her a TERF, right? Except I didn't call you a TRA! I asked you if that is what you are doing. I DID call you a transphobe, but that is because you posted something utterly transphobic, which I quoted!

I am responding as calmly as I can to your goady comments. But I think you just want a punching bag tbh. Ah! Like many a woman, tis your role in life, perhaps!

I’m a woman who has the greatest sympathy for JKR. Even more sympathy in this current moment after having to deal with you grin I still can't make sense of your JKR comments. That one is has less than the previous ones. It's like you are deliberately reading the opposite of anything I type... maybe!

But still, an answer to some of the questions you have been asked might clear up some of the possible misunderstandings. Could you do that?