Are women allowed to be offended by Drag/ women face now then?

[Chosennone]

Things are changing. Strange times. Midst Pandemic. Horrific events in the USA. people are 'waking' up to oppression and inappropriateness within comedy.
If it is no longer seen as acceptable to wear any kind of black costume, seen in LB, LOG, Ant & Dec, surely it is time that a sensible debate could be had on Drag. Is it acceptable? Is it not a mockery of female features for comedy in the same way original blackface was?
If not, why not?

@littlejalapeno, if you haven't seen the pictures of Desmond and Lactatia you should google for them. You not knowing about this means that you are not as educated on the reality as many of the women here that you are scolding.

@Maudspellbody

There's a World of difference between a pretty Tyra Sanchez and an edgy Sharon Needles. It's not all big wig and tits. There are so many representations of different kinds of women in drag.

I find it offensive, it is invariably mocking female characteristics and is overtly sexualised

The only drag artist in my opinion that came over as celebrating strong glamorous women was Lily Savage

littlejalapeno Pertella just gave 2 real life, recent examples of children being used as sexualized drag acts.

Links are NSFW

Desmond is Amazing dancing on a nightclub stage at the age of 11 in the early hours of the morning whilst adult men threw money at him
www.theblaze.com/news/adults-throw-money-at-11-year-old-drag-queen

Queen Lactatia at the age of 10 being photographed with a naked adult man posing with him is celebrating what?
www.buzz.ie/latest/outrage-10-year-old-drag-queen-naked-adult-313565

this google search is with safe search turned on, it is still NSFW.
www.google.com/search?q=Queen+Lactatia+at+the+age+of+10+being+photographed+with+a+naked+adult+ma&client=opera&hs=s47&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiB_5PvtPzpAhVJXMAKHcqoD8UQ_AUoAnoECAsQBA&biw=1499&bih=948

@14yearsandcounting

Whilst I do find it offensive I don’t find it as offensive as ‘black face’ Black people are dying in horrific numbers due to the colour of their skin, whilst women are still experiencing oppression it cannot be compared to what’s happening to black people, especially in America at the moment. Right now the battle against racism seems more urgent to me.

We can do both. Amazingly we can think of more than one issue at a time. And as ever, women being told we will get to your issues just as soon as the big men in the room get everything else sorted. ie never.

What I'd love to see is Drag evolving into something different. There is already a slight shift in some branches of drag that moves away from the traditional pageant queen or comedy queen which are often wholly mysogynistic towards art/fashion/performance. I think if there can be a shift in the language and representations of women in drag then actually what we are left with are men who sometimes wear make up. And I see nothing wrong with it. In fact I actively encourage it. The more it becomes societally acceptable for men to wear dresses and make up, the quicker gender stereotypes in this area get dismantled. It will also help to stop the myth that men who were make up and dresses = transwoman = women.

Ginger Minj Makes Over Lactatia at RuPaul's DragCon NYC 2017

Note Ginger Minj making a joke about incest and child sexual abuse at 5.25. Also see the conversation that follows immediately afterwards about the name Lactatia.

Ginger Minj hosted a "drag brunch" to raise money for the Trevor Project

Drag Brunch Benefiting The Trevor Project, a fascinating organisation endorsed by the actor Danial Radcliffe

LOW TICKET ALERT--Come celebrate Austin Pride at The Kimpton Hotel Van Zandt with a drag brunch hosted by Ginger Minj Official Fan Page from RuPaul's Drag Race. All proceeds will go to The Trevor Project, the nation's largest suicide and crisis prevention organization for LGBTQ youth.
www.facebook.com/events/1297720580359186/

The Trevor Project claims to be a suicide prevention organisation for LGBTQI youth. They claim "This past year The Trevor Project has impacted the lives of over 200,000 people through our crisis services, prevention programs, education, social media, and awareness campaigns."

Strange then that, if they want to stop vulnerable people taking their own lives, that they promote and encouraging gambling (see fb event link below).

Many young people with serious mental health problems and problems with various addictions are vulnerable to developing a gambling habit that could ruin their lives.

Gambling is a bugbear of mine. I have seen gambling destroy lives, destroy families, result in suicides, leave children growing up without a parent. I have been on the receiving end of violence significantly caused by the harm caused by gambling. How could an organisation that claims to be concerned with the wellbeing and mental health of vulnerable young people promote gambling and an event in which free credit is given to attendees to get them started? This is akin to tobacco companies giving away free cigarettes to children in developing countries and drug dealers giving out freebies to new customers. Absolutely disgusting.

www.facebook.com/events/2107838372854813/

I have posted on here a number of times about how offensive I find woman-face.
I especially find drag queening offensive as it is always a caricature of women often sexually.
I would happily campaign for it to be a form of 'entertainment' that is dumped in the history bin.

I can definitely understand why women are offended by drag, and I think there is an undercurrent (or overcurrent!) of misogyny in the gay community that is expressed in the worst way through drag (after all, there are mysoginists in all communities).

However, one thing that seems to be missed in these threads about drag is that drag queens are not generally mocking women - they are taking a lifetime of being mocked for their feminine characteristics (another symptom of misogyny in society) and empowering themselves by embracing those "feminine" characteristics

@WT422

I can definitely understand why women are offended by drag, and I think there is an undercurrent (or overcurrent!) of misogyny in the gay community that is expressed in the worst way through drag (after all, there are mysoginists in all communities).

However, one thing that seems to be missed in these threads about drag is that drag queens are not generally mocking women - they are taking a lifetime of being mocked for their feminine characteristics (another symptom of misogyny in society) and empowering themselves by embracing those "feminine" characteristics

Hit post by accident.

And the performative sexuality and bitchiness is not a send up of female stereotypes, it is a send up of gay stereotypes.

Thank you @TheInebriati I honestly had no idea about that. Those poor kids, that should not be happening and I would class it as sexual abuse and pedophilia. Those adults that engaged with that and the ones that set it up are disgusting and should be in prison.

I don’t think it’s representative of all drag. I would classify it as child abuse, and thinking about it it reminds me more of child beauty pageants and child stars like Judy Garland who are used and abused for the ends of adults.

Sorry I know it’s abhorrent and I agree with you on that front, but it can’t be the basis for a blanket generalisation on what drag is.

@growinggreyer scolding? Really? That’s such a misogynistic word, used to oppress and control women who say things we don’t want to hear. We’re all expressing our opinions and I’m at least trying to be polite.

Black people are dying in horrific numbers due to the colour of their skin, whilst women are still experiencing oppression it cannot be compared

Women are and have forever been dying in horrific numbers because they have vaginas. Two women are killed per week in the UK because they have vaginas. Globally women are being mutilated, raped and sold into slavery because they have vaginas.

OF COURSE Black Lives Matter. This post is about recognising a cultural shift in what people find offensive and asking for the objectification of women to be addressed in the same way. It's doesn't seem to have been too challenging for TV networks to identify and remove racist content, so it should be just as easy to do the same for sexist content?

Of course not. Because the truth is that almost nobody recognises women as an oppressed group or acknowledged the historical oppression of women. Not when we really get down to it.

When they bring children into it they are just peados. imo. otherwise they are just really ugly parodies.

However, one thing that seems to be missed in these threads about drag is that drag queens are not generally mocking women - they are taking a lifetime of being mocked for their feminine characteristics (another symptom of misogyny in society) and empowering themselves by embracing those "feminine" characteristics

And the fake boobs and vagina jokes?

Because the truth is that almost nobody recognises women as an oppressed group or acknowledged the historical oppression of women. Not when we really get down to it.

No because then they would have to stop doing it. Instead they market the oppression as a new kind of feminism or pretend it empowers other vulnerable groups.

Prostitution = sex work
Drag = gay culture
Erosion of sex based right = Trans rights.

Personally, I love drag, I'm a big fan of it, and so are many of my friends/workmates. I'd be gutted if anything drag-related (RuPaul's Drag Race, live drag shows etc) were banned due to causing offence. I'm a big believer that if something offends you, don't watch it. I'm probably in the minority though and love seeing/learning other people's opinions.

I'm a big believer that if something offends you, don't watch it.

The trouble with this is that you could say the same for black face. People did find this entertaining.

In years to come I think people will look back on shows like Drag Race and think it was totally unacceptable. Same goes for Queer Eye. And the Grand National, come to think of it.

@Tonz

Anna Bortion. Fuck sake. That's fucking low. Is it meant to be funny? It's not it's really not

I bet men find it funny. It is fucking grim. But, you know, look at where we were this time last year - slow progress.

littlejalapeno People from all over the world were so shocked when it first came out that they contacted the local child welfare and FBI to report it, but nothing has been done.
The parents of one of those children are unemployed and he is their income. No one in the drag community has spoken out against the way they are treated.

@Midsommar

It's not that easy though. Because what is broadcast, published or performed becomes culturally normal. For example, it becomes entirely acceptable to say that women's vaginas smell of fish, leads to women being seen as disgusting, leads to women's health issues being ignored due to embarrassment and fear, leads to women dying of cervical cancer.

That little boy drag queen, “Lactatia”.
Uggh. Really horrible. Poor boy.

The involvement of those children is sickening. Desmond how was this deemed acceptable. Children should be taught that LGB is as normal as hetero relationships. Love is love. Sexual acts and kinks are not for children.

No one in the drag community has spoken out against the way they are treated

Actually a frag queen did come forward in a video to ask what they gell they were doing and highlighting the whole culture was not suitable for kids and condemned the parents. Kitty something. Kitty McClure? Somthing like that.