To feel like we are just existing now

[Ghostlyglow]

In a miserable, joyless world of queues and masks. A couple of friends have lost their jobs this week. Where are we going with this?When will it end?

I don't think I've seen @Nihiloxica screaming about anything so I doubt she'll start now. I've seen plenty screaming for a harder lockdown and harsher punishment though so I'm sure they'll be busy if we get a second wave.

man learns anything it should be that he can't control nature. This is one such example. We can't make nature do what we want just by stamping our feet. We aren't in control here

Is that not an argument against lockdown and more in favour of the taking it on the chin approach favoured by Boris?

What if a majority of clients don't like it?

I've seen plenty screaming for a harder lockdown and harsher punishment though so I'm sure they'll be busy if we get a second wave.

Oh they will, about how everyone who didn't wear a mask are murderers. Social Media needs a new subject for people to rant about.

What if a majority of clients don't like it?

Then the choice for the poster would be to take it on the chin or enforce the rule and go bust.

I'm in an area where mask wearing has been common for a while. Some pandemic humour is possible when observing the 'masked behaviours' of others: taking off one's mask to stuff oneself with junk food is one very common sight, but my absolute favourite is the 'pull down mask to draw back on one's fag.' I sincerely hope if we are all supposed to function as one another's proxy immune systems in the New Normal that such immune system destroying behaviours are banned forthwith, similarly alcohol consumption, stress and poverty (oh...)

DH came home from the supermarket yesterday, and said the constant piped messages about how our safety was their priority were doing his head in. He said if this was truth, as opposed to marketing/propaganda, a large proportion of the items on the shelves would be prohibited from sale.

This whole thing is myopic insanity.

I really wish people would stop saying parents should be able to look after and handle their own children during lockdown.

I love my kids. But we've all been with eachother 24 hours a day for the past fucking 80+ days. We're all sick of the sight of eachother. My children need more from life than being stuck at home all day. They need social interaction. They need an education. They need PE, they need teachers and other grown ups. They need grandparents. They need structure.

@Ghostlyglow

In a miserable, joyless world of queues and masks. A couple of friends have lost their jobs this week. Where are we going with this?When will it end?

You're being unreasonable. For the most part, we all have, relatively speaking, beautiful homes, fresh running water out of a tap, a place to sleep, an abundance of every type of food imaginable, good health care (compared to most of the world), the ability to go outside, go on a walk, go and do sport.

The world is not ending. Focus on what you can do, not what you can't do.

My life is basically no different.

I sincerely hope if we are all supposed to function as one another's proxy immune systems in the New Normal that such immune system destroying behaviours are banned forthwith, similarly alcohol consumption, stress and poverty (oh...)

This is one of the smartest things I've read throughout this.

"Functioning as one another's proxy immune system"

Jesus that's exactly what is being demanded.

Thank you.

What if a majority of clients don't like it?What if a majority of clients don't like it?

Then frequent the establishments where all staff and clients are in favour of not wearing masks.

Is that not an argument against lockdown and more in favour of the taking it on the chin approach favoured by Boris?

No. There are ways for us to live alongside this virus, to contain it as best we can. We can do that, some countries are doing it very successfully but you can't simply choose to ignore it.

Who has the right to put other people's lives at risk? Who even argues in favour of supporting this attitude?

Do you also argue for the right to drive drunk?

Thank you Nihiloxica.

The comparison with drink driving is not on point.

Coronavirus causes an illness that might kill some people. That’s unfortunate but it’s kind of what illnesses do. There’s only so far people can reasonably be expected to go in preventing other people catching an illness. If person A unknowingly infects person B with the virus, and person B dies, it’s the virus that’s done that, not person A.

@SudokuBook

I don’t trust the government on masks. When 1 in 40 people had the virus they told us they didn’t make a difference and now 1 in 1000 and dropping people have it they do? Fuck them and their bullshit and lies. So they were either lying then, which is unforgivable as it will have caused deaths, or they’re lying now and the mask wearing instructions are just tokenism.

It’s more that the evidence base is changing. There wasn’t much evidence at the time. There’s increasing evidence that masks are more effective than thought in preventing people spreading disease so mask + distancing + hand washing looks like the way to go. Especially in inside communal areas.

And it’s not necessarily the number of infections that’s the issue. When it was 1 in 40 we locked down to lower the number of infections. Arguably there’s less need for a mask if you are having very few interactions with people. Now we are unlocking and seeing different people, that rate is going to rise. If wearing masks keeps it lower while allowing people to get out and see more people or makes working safer that would seem to be worth doing.

And if everyone that could wear a mask did, then the people that can’t wear one would be better protected.

People are forgetting that the only reason we locked down was because of exponential growth. If this was not a factor with this illness and consequently the NHS wouldn’t have been overwhelmed the government and probably most of the rest of the population wouldn’t give 2 fucks about Coronavirus. We’d have been told to wash our hands and that would have been it.

I feel the same. The last week has been awful. I am so bored and when I wake up in the morning I just dread the day ahead.

I personally quite enjoyed the beginning of lockdown. There was nice weather, I did lots of cooking and baking, went on lots of lovely walks, did lots of DIY, etc. Now I have ran out of things to do, I'm bored of baking and there is nothing I want to watch on TV or stream online. I miss having things to look forward to like meals out and trips to the theatre.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay I was going to say the same. I've examined the science around mask wearing quite carefully. The problem is early on, we only had studies on flu and other contagious viruses to guide us and they don't behave exactly the same way as coronavirus. Many countries including the Czech Republic in Europe, as well as countries where mask-wearing is more common and considered polite not to infect others with anything (even a cold), such as in South Korea, just made them mandatory. Since then, science on mask wearing specifically to prevent corona is starting to emerge, though as lots of those countries have other better systems than the UK such as effective track and trace, it's really hard to know if it was the masks that made the difference, but the evidence is starting to suggest yes.

It's easier to establish a new social norm of mask wearing than wait til a second wave hits and then start it. People cotton on too late. If people were incredibly obedient and understood risk very well, it might be fine not to bother with masks right now, but in two months time it might be critical.

Personally, I wear a mask out of respect for all the people who have to go to work and have no choice, such as shop-workers. It's not a big deal to me though, and I don't care that most other people in my area are not wearing them, they also do things I wouldn't do in many other areas, I'd rather worry about my own personal responsibility and do what I think the science suggests is right.

@SudokuBook

People are forgetting that the only reason we locked down was because of exponential growth. If this was not a factor with this illness and consequently the NHS wouldn’t have been overwhelmed the government and probably most of the rest of the population wouldn’t give 2 fucks about Coronavirus. We’d have been told to wash our hands and that would have been it.

Probably true. But that probably says more about the English psyche than the virus.

Also, my friends in Germany are much further along with releasing lockdown, they are off out to restaurants, shopping, generally living a more fun life but with masks on and they think it's totally worth it. Trust British people to moan about lockdown but then not want to do one of the simplest things that, like handwashing, isn't a miracle cure but may well help keep rates low.

These authors looked at different areas in Germany with different face mask policies and concluded they reduce corona by around 40%

ftp.iza.org/dp13319.pdf

I'm a bit fed up. Was furloughed, now WFH
Shielding so yes I was asked to stay home for weeks without going out
Been to the beach in the evening once. Not happy to go for walks locally and consultant doesn't want me to, the area I live in was listed as having not hit a peak and a high R rate, plus I find people come right up to me
I've seen nobody since about the 17th March, including family (they're elderly but lower risk than me so are avoiding me!)

I think there’s some quite interesting stuff coming through from countries with testing and tracing up running about which sorts of situations are leading to outbreaks or super spreader events.

I think workplaces are going to be a bigger issue if companies start insisting everyone goes back without putting in additional measures to enable that.

It’s interesting seeing how many people struggle to be with their own children and families every day. They need distractions to cope with their lives. Many people home educate & thrive on being & learning together. Why do so many people struggle?

@blue25 I'm home alone.. but then I'm grateful for that as I don't have to worry about anyone else shielding with me. On the other hand; I just want some human physical contact like a hug

@SudokuBook

The comparison with drink driving is not on point.

Coronavirus causes an illness that might kill some people. That’s unfortunate but it’s kind of what illnesses do. There’s only so far people can reasonably be expected to go in preventing other people catching an illness. If person A unknowingly infects person B with the virus, and person B dies, it’s the virus that’s done that, not person A.

And had person A hasn't followed all of the requirements to minimise spreading the infection then they've contributed to person Bs death.

I see choosing not to wear a mask as very similar to drink driving or smoking inside. If you can tell someone they aren't allowed to drink drive or smoke inside a pub in order to protect the lives of the public then you can tell people to wear masks for the same reasons.

I see choosing not to wear a mask as very similar to drink driving or smoking inside.

There just are not enough eye rolls for this. Masks are not force fields. And if misused, they are useless.

Why do so many people struggle?

Because they are just not as perfect as you, golly gee! But you know that already, naturally .