Horse rider and her 'request'

[Harmonyrays]

I need to know if im being unreasonable here in thinking that this lady was being deliberately awkward or something if its else. For contex, we are non white, they were white.

So My children (2 + 6) and I were having a great time exploring the woods when a horse box pulled in and two women unloaded their horses. Kids were naturally excited by this and wanted to get closer to see. I made sure we were a good distance away, at least 10 metres and we were up on the slope. The kids were watching the horses being unloaded for a few minutes. My son had a stick in his hands as he was ramble around and likes to do this. I made sure they were quite. The horses were quickly taken around the other side of the box to saddle up.

After a few minutes we decided to head down to the path and walk around the other side so they could see the horses more cleary and continue our walk. Again they were quite. We found a little bridge that was going the opposite way to where the horses were and my son wanted to explore that so we headed that way. We dissapeared from the womens view for around 5 mins and then i went back to bridge to wait for my son. At this point one of the women, in her 60's, walked over and said 'we are about to take the horses up here (a path that was no where near me and my chldren) can you just move on somewhere else. I said to her im sorry but we are here well away from you and your horses. She then said 'well cant you just move on because the sticks are scaring the horses'. Bear in mind there were no sticks in view at this point at all. As this was the second time she had said 'just move on' with a dismissive hand wave i was getting annoyed and said well were not doing anything to you or the horses. She then said 'well what ARE you doing here'. I said to her 'i dont need to tell you what im doing here, we are in the woods and free to go where we please'. She then looked like she was getting exasperated and huffed saying 'yes i know that but im asking you nicely if you can just move on until we move the horses up the road'.

Given that we were over a bridge and a good 20 metres away from the horses i think it had nothing to do with sticks. I feel she had an entitled attitude and like there was something else bothering her.

The irony is we have been around horses for many years so are aware of how to behave which is exactly why we kept our distance.

If i were alone this wouldnt have bothered me but my son heard and was then saying oh lets just go mum. I feel like she made him feel he shouldnt be there and that upset me.

So i need to know your thoughts, yes i am being unreasonable the lady was right in asking us to move on. No im not being unreasonable and she was out of line telling us to move on.

Thank you

Horse riders are entitled and this lady sounds rude, but if she knows the horse is skittish then I think it was OK to ask you to move out of sight, since it sounds like you were just hanging around on the bridge waiting for your son to do... something?

@Pinkyyy

And there have been a lot of reports of old white people behaving inappropriately towards black people....FOR CENTURIES.

That may well be the case, but this is not one of those times. Trying to make things out to be racist when they're not just undermines actual acts of racism.

Well she behaved inappropriately and we have no way of knowing whether that encounter was made worse because of the OP being a POC but you have decided you know better than the OP - you have somehow looked into horsey woman's mind and declared it's all good she'd have treated anyone the same! Really?

Yeah I've worked with mine too but it took almost 3 years before he reacted normally to a lunge whip most of the time, and even now he can be funny. First time I was in him and someone tried to hand me a shirt whip, he bolted. Took me ages to be able to hold one on him. He's better now, but anyome waving something around would make him nervous as he doesn't know them. Although give him food and he's your friend for life.

carrots featured heavily in the “sticks aren’t so bad” message getting through.

To be honest OP it basically sounds like you were deliberately being a nuisance so your kids could look (and spook) the horses.

You should have moved when you were asked to.

is riding around on your pet really worth the death of a baby?

Apparently it's perfectly alright because you have public liability insurance (not even a legal requirement in the UK)

Why mention your colour or hers? Or her age? For that alone, YABU. Ridiculous to mention either, both are irrelevant.

I also would have asked you to put down the sticks, my horse shits his pants at whips, the only way he stopped last time anyone used a stick on him was to run him into a solid wall. You say you’re experienced? You don’t sound it.

For context we are non white they were white.

For context this is totally irrelevant. I fail to see why OP has to bring this into the situation. I dont wish to digress from the horse scenario but sincerely hope we dont have to have this on every thread from now on.

HER COLOUR IS NOT IRRELEVANT!

If you're not black you have NO idea how often black people are treated as "less than" or bossed around or told they're acting suspiciously when a white person would not.

Have you not READ THE NEWS!"??? Learned nothing!??

Pinkky

Bollocks.

How is it appropriate to demand someone 'move on' when they're out in the open countryside? The OP did nothing wrong.

Fortune it makes me cringe how oblivious some people are!

Although I am white - I just don't go around with my eyes shut

[quote EmmelineGreen]@MitziK

To be fair, that's not always the easiest thing to ensure if you live in the middle of fecking Dartmoor. Can't exactly stick in on the 11.27 to Paddington and get out for a bit of a wander, after all.

Well if your horse can’t function in society as a result then it shouldn’t be on public land should it? Black people are allowed to go into the countryside.[/quote]
Some horses can't handle a bucket in the wrong place. They're prey animals, they don't like things being unpredictable. They aren't dogs, they aren't cats and they aren't people. They're horses.

Not going to learn to 'function in society' if it's kept in a field (or in the case of Dartmoor and the common feature of people saying 'We can go where we like', locked in a shed to avoid coming into contact with anybody), is it?

Can't imagine that any BAME families would be particularly impressed with 'excuse me, my horse is shit scared of people who look like you and there aren't any people like you living in the village, can I bring him over so he learns not to kick you and run away?'.

If a horse is nervy around particular circumstances, like the aforementioned threatening leaf, the only way it will learn those circumstances aren't a real threat is to be there and for nothing scary to happen to it over an extended period of time.

But with horses, you can't just put them there with a kid waving a stick around (or whatever scares them) for ten minutes and say 'there, there' because you'll be halfway across a tor before you get to the end of the first word.

And to then be presented with the kid with a stick, only for the kid with a stick to move/lurk around in peripheral vison, potentially make noises, hit a few leaves with the stick, run to catch up with Mum, etc, that just reinforces that the horse was right in its initial assessment of a kid with a stick being a threat. They don't respond to flooding like some humans can - and most humans who are arachnophobic, for example, cannot handle a bucket of tarantulas dropped in their lap either. Can't say to a person if they're scared of spiders or birds that they have no business being outside - and at least a human knows (hopefully) that that level of fear is irrational.

You move the horse where it doesn't catch sight of the kid with a stick, you ask the parent of the kid with the stick to put it down or, as you'll mostly likely get an entitled, hostile response, you ask them to not stay where the presence of the kid with a stick can be seen by the horse.

Everybody is allowed to go into the countryside. But that doesn't mean that everybody is allowed to insist upon staying in a position that causes an animal distress.

It’s comments on threads like this that make me realise just how much work we still have to do to educate people on racism in this country.

It’s threads like these that make me realise how removed from any sort of understanding people have about the countryside or animals. And how people will argue with people just because they can.

FortunesFave

Capitals are not needed. Nobody is saying her colour is irrelevant merely the fact it is not necessary to state her skin colour in that situation.

You have to laugh at racists Mumsnet telling a woman of colour that the colour of her skin isn't relevant.

Education is your way out of this bigotry.

It wasnt always like this on here. Just been an influx of absolute nobheads in the last year or so, I assume from daily mail writing about mumsnet.

@sadandlonely2020

You have to laugh at racists Mumsnet telling a woman of colour that the colour of her skin isn't relevant.

Education is your way out of this bigotry.

This!

@Cherrysoup completely agree. Neither piece of information is relevant.
It's likely the horse has issues with sticks/whips and she wanted the kids away for their own safety as much as her horse/her issues. Fair enough the woman sounds rude, but the OP was rude in return.

My brother was trampled by a horse that got scared and bolted when he was only 4. Luckily he was fine but it was horrific to watch - and he was doing nothing to upset the horse at all, was well known to the horse and not even close to it at the time. They can be unpredictable when spooked and no one wants an insurance claim or an injured child to deal with.

Everybody is allowed to go into the countryside. But that doesn't mean that everybody is allowed to insist upon staying in a position that causes an animal distress. the op was there first - the horse woman should have waited or gone elsewhere!.

They can be unpredictable when spooked and no one wants an insurance claim or an injured child to deal with.

I like the way you list an insurance claim and an injured child as equal consideration.

Again, I don't understand why if your pet hurts a child - especially if you've knowingly taken it into a public space knowing it might become potentially deadly if faced with something as innocuous as a child with a stick - you're not facing criminal charges rather than just an insurance claim.

is riding around on your pet really worth the death of a baby?

Apparently it's perfectly alright because you have public liability insurance (not even a legal requirement in the UK)

Horses are prey animals, so if they perceive a threat that they can get away from, they will take that option. In a situation of coming across a pram and the horse spooks at it, it'll move away not towards. They will usually only act with aggression if cornered. The baby in the pram is least at risk in that scenario.

And as for you shouldn't have a horse in a public space if it's not 100% under your control. Well, cars are 100% under the drivers control. How come there's so many car accidents then? Surely if the car is under your complete control, then they should never crash unless there's a serious mechanical fault to cause it?

I rode on the roads for over 20 years, the only common denominator in any incidents that happened were the people who told me I was a rich, stuck up snob who thought I was better than everyone else. Nope, I was a groom doing my job and didn't have a pot to piss in, never mind a silver spoon in my mouth, and would never in a month of Sundays been told that if I wasn't sat on a horse. I've had cans, bottles, food and other things thrown at me, called a slag (thanks Jilly Cooper for that addition to the stereotype) had cars reverse back at the horse so I've had to take evasive action and avoid being hit, off lead dogs 'playing' hanging off horses tails..... And as a rider in a public space I was the problem? Right.

I never caused an accident, I thanked drivers, pulled in, gave way, passed a riding and road safety test, had training and was insured. I behaved responsibly towards other road users, I rode at the quietest times and not on roads that were usually busy.

But apparently I can't have ever done any of those things by virtue of the fact I like horses, so automatically I'm a rich, rude bitch with an attitude.

Horses are a passion for some people, regardless of what life they were born into, and some, like me will find a way to be around them even when the cost of owning one is prohibitive for life.

The woman in the OP was rude, that may be because she's a racist, or just a bitch in general, only she knows that. The fact there were horses involved, apparently make it a forgone conclusion though. 🤷

the op was there first - the horse woman should have waited or gone elsewhere!.

To be fair to the horse woman she had moved her horse out of view, so the family moved again so they could see it again.

It would be been a better idea for the family to take the hint and continue their walk rather than continue to hang around in eyesight of someone who had already moved their horse away once.

Here's the thing, when you're white the colour of your skin isn't relevant, when you're black or brown it often is. We don't know for sure that the woman was racist but it's more than a little likely that she was. OP has mentioned her race because it may well be important in this scenario. Anyone who thinks it absolutely doesn't is living in that la la land where people believe that we've "cured" racism in this country.

@sadandlonely2020

You have to laugh at racists Mumsnet telling a woman of colour that the colour of her skin isn't relevant.

Education is your way out of this bigotry.

Whilst racism is wrong (well, duh - I'd say obviously, but unfortunately, far too many people don't believe that) and it does negatively affect people every day, there are still circumstances when it IS entirely unrelated in a disagreement.

Somebody knocks into me in the supermarket and hurts me, I'm going to be pissed off with them because they knocked into me and hurt me, not because of their skin colour. I tell somebody to please not chuck bottles over the fence because they could hurt me or the cat (the next door neighbour's son), it's because chucking bottles over the fence could hurt me or the cat, not because of his skin colour.

And when a horse is distressed by people with sticks and the parent has refused to accept that a person with a stick can still affect said horse, it can be simply that the horse owner is reacting to a person with a stick scaring their horse, not that there is a BAME family in the countryside.

In this situation, I would have just got away from the horses, even before she asked. Right away from them. A girl in my school was very seriously injured by a spooked horse and I would absolutely not have watched them or kept appearing anywhere where they could see or made any noises that might disturb them in any way.

It sounds like she asked you politely to move in the first instance and you said sorry but we're here well away from your horses and you didn't move. I would have just moved immediately. I don't understand why you didn't and I think it was difficult of you not to move when asked. The conversation escalated from there and she may or may not be rude, racist or thought she was old enough to be your mother and it was her right to order you around. But her motivation in asking you to move was clearly because she didn't want the horses getting bothered. She knows her horses better than you and I cannot fathom why you even got into any further conversation about it. Why didn't you just move? I am really confused. I would just have moved immediately.

Your youngest child is 2 and they can be unpredicatable and loud. 2yo + horse = bad combination IMO.