AIBU to stop contact, due to ex not social distancing

[PerspectiveIsAVirtue]

Hi all...

I've been a long time lurker on here, but this is my first post. I have noone to turn to irl, so thank you in advance for taking the time to read through this long post and any advice given.

DD is 9. Ex and I split during the pregnancy and have for the most part managed to remain amicable and only message each other on a "need to know" basis. Pre-lockdown, he would see DD one day a week plus every other weekend. There are no court orders in place.

Fast forward to March and I messaged ex to discuss the imminent lockdown and what our approach would be going forward,. Given the nature of both of our jobs, I suggested that we all isolate for two weeks and then either he was welcome to stay with us for the duration or we would resume normal contact arrangements if that was preferable, assuming we would both be following the government guidelines. He agreed to the isolation, but was not forthcoming with how he would like things to proceed afterwards or whether he would be strictly social distancing, as DD and I have been.

(It's important to note that while none of us have underlying health conditions, I am suffering from extreme anxiety, for which I am actively seeking help for.)

Those initial two weeks came and went and admittedly, I didn't approach ex to review the situation, as I was dealing with the demands of wfh, homeschooling etc. He also did not press the matter and would facetime DD daily.

In time, we began to visit his garden (via a side gate and socially distanced), so DD and ex could spend time together in person.

Sadly, ex's family suffered a loss and he expressed a wish for DD to attend the funeral. I tried to be as supportive as possible, but asked that he respect my wishes to keep DD socially distanced throughout the day. Despite assurances, he did the opposite, driving many miles with DD and members of two other households and DD confirmed that there was no distancing at the wake, which at least six households attended.

Needless to say, I was upset about this, but bit my tongue, as I understood it was an emotional time and hoped it was a one-off.

However, through conversations with ex, it has become apparent that he has not stuck to the guidelines over the last eleven weeks and he has admitted to staying at his mum's and having multiple friends and family over to his house.

He is now insisting that pre-lockdown contact arrangements resume, but refuses to agree to socially distance with or without DD, citing that he doesn't see DD as being at risk and that the guidelines were put in place for "vulnerable people", not us.

His view is that I am damaging DD through my approach to follow the guidelines to the letter and that my "crippling anxiety" and "irrational fears" are going to negatively impact DD in the long run. This is an additional worry on my part, but I am trying my hardest to limit this, by seeking help for my anxiety (have been prescribed medication and am on the waiting list for CBT), forcing myself to take DD out for walks and making sure DD has contact with her friends through facetime/emails, but I do worry about the impact of the last eleven weeks on DD and regularly check in with her. She seems ok.

I lost my mother to something that ultimately could have been avoided when I was a teenager and I believe that a lot of my anxiety stems from this and wanting to keep DD and myself "safe". Although I know statistically that we would most likely only experience mild symptoms, I just don't see the point in testing that theory out if we don't have to. Why chance it?

Ex has gone so far as to arrange a playdate at his for DD this weekend and says that he will do as he sees best when DD is with him.

I accept that ex and I might not always share the same parental views, but AIBU to stop contact for the time being, as he is insistent on breaking the social distancing rules and not putting our DD's health first?

Thank you so much if you made it to the end! Am happy to be told I'm being unreasonable. I know my anxiety may be clouding my judgement and just want to do what is best for DD.

As you know the risk is extremely low to your dd- it will be far more damaging in the long run if you stop contact altogether and I’m sorry but I think your anxiety is controlling your views totally on this matter.I understand totally as my son has crippling anxiety and OCD- and children who desperately wanted to see their father but he didn’t see them.I come from the view that you should be enabling contact

I think your anxiety is colouring your thoughts too, and I think you've passed that onto your dd. She shouldn't at the age of 9 be obsessing about the rules as much as she is. I've shielded my 8yo from all of this. You could if you wanted completely relieve her anxiety by saying that it's annoying that your ex has disregarded the rules, but that he is low risk.

Look the risks are extremely low now, none of you are high risk, she quite clearly really wants to see her dad, i think you should let her and trust him to be a parent to her too.

I don't think it's down to your anxiety at all. He isn't follow the government rules re distancing. I think he is being unreasonable and especially so to then make out it's you.
I have similar with my ex. At the start he demanded I take unpaid leave so the children weren't at risk. He's now saying no to a return to school. However he's visiting multiple households and having people round.

The risks to children are tiny tiny anyway like about the same as being struck by lightning the risks are getting smaller as infections drop. No healthy child has died of covid in the UK, since lockdown started over 200 children have died of other things on average 6children aged 1-20 die everyday the main cause being accidents.
Being mathematical it is thought 1 in 1000 people have virus this includes both those with and without symptoms, most people with symptoms stay at home so even if half are out with symptoms that is 1 in 2000, as you can't catch it from someone that doesn't have it even if you are within 1metre your chances of catching it are 13% so that is 0.13x 0.002 which equates to about 1 in 18,000 of catching it, chances of a 9 year old getting serious symptoms are less than 1% so 1 in 1,800,000 chances of dying are even less, hence the study showing that a child of 9 is more likely to die from being struck by lightning than by Covid, both of these are much less than risk of say a car accident . And I don't know any parent that doesn't allow their children in cars as too risky

You can't cut contact with her dad to ease your anxiety.

I'm happy to agree to disagree, but in that case, why did you start this thread and enable voting if you were planning to disagree with 70% of the responses? I'm honestly not having a go at you OP. I understand that you are really anxious about this - and of course it is your decision. But it does seem a little hard on ex and DD.

I'm sorry but yabu and I feel sorry for your daughter. From your updates it is clear she does want to see her dad but is probablu trying to shield that from you given your very obvious signs of extreme anxiety.

I do not believe lockdown should be used as a means of keeping children from parents. We have seen it all too often on here over the past few months.

Your anxiety should not be having a negative impact on DD.

Yabu, it's unfair on your dd to deny her seeing her dad, to pass on your anxiety and to allow her to be so exposed to your obsessing over 'the rules'.

If you look at it logically, @TeacupDrama says it very well, the risks are tiny. The infection and risk of infection is predominately in hospital and care home settings, the community transmission is tiny. Lockdown is easing, it was never going to be a case of everything lifted at once as there has to be a way to measure each step to ensure those rates stay low and to identify the cause if there was an increase.

As single parents (assuming you both live alone) you and your ex could now form support bubbles, so that's additional households your dd could be in contact with. Would you also refuse access if your ex formed a support bubble as is now 'allowed'?

Ultimately he is her parent just as much as you are. What he does when they are together is really none of your business. His risk assessment has drawn different conclusions to yours. My concern is that you are trying to cocoon your daughter and she could end up with the same anxieties as you. Children are already mixing together in groups of 15 at school, they are meeting up with friends now, they are seeing grandparents. All this is happening.

Social distancing is easing and you will have to trust that he also has your daughters interests.

He maybe practicing 2m rule when seeing people and this is no different to those who go to the shops. I am in a similar situation and reluctantly continued with contact despite knowing Ex breaking guidelines. I do know he cares for our DC and have to accept that our views on risk are different.

Reassure your daughter she is safe, ask Ex to practice the 2m rule, tell your daughter to wash hands and let contact happen.

Thank you all for reading and replying.

I do appreciate what you're all saying, especially about the lockdown easing, but feel like you are missing my point. If DD's year group were one of the ones to go back, of course I would be anxious (although I'd hide this from DD), but would let her go. That's because it would be a safe, socially distanced environment for her to see others in. I would be the same about taking her into a shop if we needed to and indeed took her to the pharmacist with me yesterday to pick up my prescription. Although it was completely nerve-wracking for me, it was fine, as everything was done from 2m and we were in and out.

I'm not trying to cocoon DD, drill rules into her or keep her from her dad. As I've said all along, I wanted contact to continue throughout this, for everybody's sake.

However, ex is seeing many others from at least eleven different households almost on a daily basis, both inside his home and inside theirs in a completely non-socially distanced way. I believe that his dad, who lives with him, is doing similar, but no way of knowing. Ex has already said that he intends to mix DD with others inside his home and will take her to other people's homes. These other households won't be sitting in the garden or at a distance and they'll be inside for prolonged periods. He is not worried if she gets this and isn't taking steps to avoid it.

Statistically, that raises the risk of her catching this, as the science says not to mix households in this way, at present to avoid transmission.

If Chris Whitty stood up today and said it's completely fine to mix households indoors, then I would immediately back down, despite my feelings.

I wonder if it was a mistake to mention my anxiety on here. Other than the GP and psychologist I have spoken to recently, I haven't mentioned it to anyone and have been incredibly cautious to make sure it is hidden from DD. All conversations with ex have been over text and I made sure she didn't overhear my conversations with the doctors and set her up with a film and headphones and told her I was working. I rarely talk about the pandemic with her...only in relation to exercises the school sent and even then I was quick to reassure her that we are low risk and as long as we stay on top of washing our hands and keep a distance from others when out and about it would be fine. Other than the rare time that she has caught me upset, which I attribute to tiredness, I like to think that she is none the wiser to my anxiety, so please stop suggesting otherwise. I only mentioned it, because it is new to me and I am really struggling internally. Just feel like it's been used as a weapon to bash me with in here...

A big part of me wonders that if I had just posted that ex isn't socially distancing and mixing with multiple households, then the comments and vote would be different.

@Techway
Thank you. It's good to hear from someone in a similar position. Unfortunately ex is refusing to practice the 2m rule with anyone he is mixing with and there is no reasoning with him on that. He is literally carrying on as normal, along with everyone he is seeing. The first thing DD said returning from the funeral was that everybody had a party (the wake) and were sat together on the sofa/dancing/laying in DD's bed etc. That was six different households...not to mention the two hours he drove her with members from two different households.

He's not even attempting to keep a distance, hence my dilemma.

All the pps saying you and your daughter are at minimal or non existent risk , untrue. Also to those saying you'd only get mike symptoms , how do they know? I've known two 'healthy' people be completely floored by it (tested positive, NHS workers).
I just wouldn't appreciate the complete lack of respect for your feelings.

• mild symptoms

Wow 11 households per day - he must be busy. Are you sure this is happening or are you perhaps exaggerating? Who visits 11 households in one day or has them round on a regular basis? I certainly don't know if anyone. Your daughter seems (a little overly) aware situation I imagine she'll be careful. Also please don't think much social distancing is going on in schools within the bubbles. At least it isn't here in our hub schools. Your daughter isn't back because there isn't space for her and the government ballsed up with guidance, it's not because her year group is at any higher risk

@3rdNamechange

All the pps saying you and your daughter are at minimal or non existent risk , untrue. Also to those saying you'd only get mike symptoms , how do they know? I've known two 'healthy' people be completely floored by it (tested positive, NHS workers). I just wouldn't appreciate the complete lack of respect for your feelings.

@3rdNamechange

Thank you! I know statistically the chances are small, but I myself know someone the same age as me and probably a lot fitter who ended up in hospital. Thankfully they are ok now, but the truth is nobody knows how their body will react until it happens to them.

Tough one op. I would be feeling the same as you though.

My ex actually hasn’t seen DS at all so that’s not an issue.

But I do have issues with extended family. My family are desperate to see the children but they aren’t social distancing at all and haven’t been for weeks so I’m reluctant to go see them - even in the garden. I just want to keep my family safe.

we should still be social distancing even if lockdown is being eased. So YANBU.

As for my DD, knowing that ex isn't socially distancing atm, she is happy not to go for the time being for that reason. Is that what she really thinks or what she thinks you want her to think?
And ex is seeing many others from at least eleven different households almost on a daily basis, both inside his home and inside theirs. He's got the time to visit or be visited by 11 different people a day, and work? Is it possible that this is overthinking?

By keeping my family safe. I mean my partner and my our dc.

My son is in y6 and they are not socially distancing in school. They practise good hygenie and bubbles but that's all. You're anxiety is irrelevant to any of the facts about the level of risk posed both of transmission and serious symptoms. You keep saying, 'if he'd just do what i want it would be fine' but you really simply can't go parent like that. We all have to accept our exs making different parenting choices and this is really no different to any other dispute over suitable bedtimes, being left alone, screen time, using the kettle at x age or whatever. Contact is v v important and should only be stopped in extreme circumstances where there is a REAL liklihood of harm.

@midnightstar66
Of course he's not seeing them all at once (except for the day of the funeral when he mixed himself and DD with six other households), but he is 100% mixing with members from eleven different households...e.g. staying at his mums one day, inviting a friend over to play chess with him another, going to his aunts, having his cousin come over to his, going to his brothers, going to another friends...obviously not all at the same time, but doing these things on an almost daily basis.

@BeeB29
Thank you for understanding.

People are not missing your point, they are just not agreeing with you.

That is the point of the AIBU section of MN.

I am in that same position with a thoughtless ex. My sons relationship with him is more important than my feelings regarding the risks of breaking lockdown.

I'm not sure if it's different in England but in Scotland you are allowed to meet up with different households as long as it's not all at the same time. I was under the impression rules were stricter here? yesterday we saw friends at the stables and my mum and dad later. Today we will meet a friend before dc go to their dads. 11 households at once - not ok. 11 households separately but all in one day - pushing it not technically against the rules. 11 households within the space of a week - perfectly within current guidelines.

It was me not midnight that queried seeing the people!