A response to JK Rowling

[Hjft]

J.K. Rowling, like so many others, has recently been accused of transphobia and targeted for expressing some of her opinions on sex and gender. This is a very nuanced issue which many people struggle with, including members of the trans community. Assuming bigotry and shutting down debate is not the way to address these issues. Instead we should engage in reasoned debate in order to better understand the subtitles and find a way to live together with mutual respect.

On 10 June 2020 JK Rowling wrote about her reasons for speaking out on sex and gender Issues ( www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/ ) . It is a welcome calm voice in what she calls a toxic environment and I commend her bravery for standing up to the bullies. The essay explains eloquently what she believes and why she holds the opinions she does. She opens up about some very personal issues, and I hope all her detractors will read it before shouting her down.

An essay, however well written, carries a bias, and a reasonable author will recognise that bias and be willing to consider that they could be wrong. And so should the reader of an essay. By writing this essay, JK Rowling has exposed some very valid points which the other side of the debate wish to brush aside. However, she has also indicated a bias which I hope to address.

She conflates sex and gender, and she conflates the law and medicine. Firstly she worries that trans activism is ‘pushing to erode the legal definition of sex and replace it with gender’. This legal definition is for the protection of the civil rights of trans people and has no bearing on biology. Trans people still receive healthcare appropriate to their individual biological truths. Every trans person is acutely aware of their biological sex because it is incongruous with their gender. Remember when Harry Potter uses Polyjuice potion to take on the form of Goyle in ‘Chamber of secrets”. He does not stop being Harry. Now imagine if Harry had got stuck, and had to live his life with everyone believing he was Goyle. It would be intolerable for him and would likely lead to mental illness or worse. This is what it’s like for trans people, and why the law is in place to protect their right to be their authentic selves. Being Harry is ‘not a costume’.

This conflation is further illustrated when she expresses alarm that ‘A man who intends to have no surgery and take no hormones may now secure himself a Gender Recognition Certificate and be a woman in the sight of the law’. Again, this demonstrates a conflation of law and medicine. If a trans person can find relief from their gender dysphoria by permanently expressing themselves in an authentic manner then why should we expect them to accept medical intervention in order to get legal protection. Imagine you have a migraine. If sitting in a dark room with a glass of water provides you with sufficient relief, then you shouldn’t be expected to take strong pain killers or accept brain surgery. The ‘man’ she describes is not masquerading as a woman - she is living her authentic identity as a woman. The law protects her rights to do so. She is not a predator, and it should not be assumed that she is. Without these rights, her transgender status would be revealed every time she tries to hire a car, or open a bank account, and it is her safety that is in danger. A man masquerading as a woman is not able to legally get a Gender Recognition Certificate - because they are a man.

[redacted*] I hope JK Rowling’s essay will mark a turning point in the tone of these discussions, and people can start to properly address them.

• [edited by MNHQ to remove inflammatory content - we're allowing the challenges to this section of the OP to remain]

So to protect women, we say no men can come in to spaces where women are vulnerable just incase one of you are a rapist. Men generally accept this as fair, because generally men who are not rapists want women to be safe and protected. It's not hard to understand the above, and why the majority of both men and women accept this as fair where do you get your stats on that? If i had to guess I would say that "most" people are ok with mixed toilets. They are the norm in many places. Also what about young boys being raped in male only toilets?

I can never believe this nonsense "accident of birth" or "born in the wrong body".

printing worksheets where did I mention toilets?

But men raping young boys in toilets, is another example of male violence. Women can not solve male violence, men have to solve that. All wkmet can do is have measure in place to safeguard them from this.

Why do you think most women take young children in to the women's toilet? To safeguard them, or if there is a intersex toilet they still accompany them in there. This is a children's safeguarding issue against.....male violence.

Not sure why you need statistics on a societally accepted norm. I am pretty sure if yougov did a straw poll on are men happy for women to have a women's bathroom to say safe, the majority of men would answer yes. Because the majority of men are not sexual predators or wish harm on women.

I mean I could do a quick one with the 40 or so military blokes I know as a minor experiment, but we all know what the answer would be?!

If i had to guess I would say that "most" people are ok with mixed toilets.

What are your stats on that? I know pretty much no one who is, male or female. I also know many females who will not be able to use mixed toilets. What do you suggest we do with them?

They are the norm in many places.

Why?

Did female people clamour to be allowed to pee and undress with men because it was so unfair?

Or was it because it was a cheap and easy way to stop the endless harassment of male people who very much want to be in spaces where women are vulnerable and in a state of undress? The women actually being in the space being very, very important, the women's consent and views not being relevant in any way so 'using' starts to become involved?

Mixed sex is certainly not a 'norm'. The people trying to make this so have no interest in females or their needs or the females who will be left with no spaces at all in the effort to make male people happier in their skin.

It just keeps coming back to male violence doesn’t it. That’s the root of the problem.

Worksheets, what about young boys being raped in men's toilets? It's more male violence, that's what. How will it help the little boys' plight if little girls are being raped in what used to be women's toilets? Does that bring a perverse fairness to the situation? How is anything improved?

Incidentally take a look at all the research and evidence, personal accounts and reasons why hospitals must provide single sex wards?

People there were not clamouring to be mixed sex, they hated it. They didn't feel safe, they were miserable with the loss of privacy and dignity involved.

However the legislation has been fiddled that single sex wards must be provided for women unless a male says he wants to be placed on the women's ward. If female patients are distressed by this, that is their problem. Some will discharge themselves. Some will be forced to by their culture, faith or family.

If you look around, you'll also find accounts from staff working on wards about when a male is placed on a women's ward and then behaves in a highly inappropriate, sexual and threatening way to the distress of the other patients, it often takes several days to be able to take action to remove them. The female people in the meantime are just collateral damage to this lovely, happy, inclusive and wonderful experience. For the male born person.

Are you spotting the sexism here yet?

"most people are ok with mixed toilets"

Nope

Most men don’t like mixed sex wards either, it’s embarrassing for them to share a space with women. There’s very little privacy.

@Hjft

You are grown. Black and Brown people don’t have to do your emotional labour and teach you to be less racist. You teach yourself. You have access to the internet and screen. Research - books, journals, articles. Enough with the platitudes. Your ignorance is your privileged problem that weighs on our necks. Enough is enough.

I can never believe this nonsense "accident of birth" or "born in the wrong body" that is an inflammatory unnecessary comment. and saying things like that riles activists, and it makes tolerant open minded people angry too. It also isn't what JKRowling has said either, incidentally.

granny mixed toilets would have the benefit of mothers being able to accompany boys who are vulnerable but seen as too old to go into a women only toilet ie 8 up - but more to the point it illustrates also that by closing off female toilets to any being older than 8 with a penis might solve one problem but there are other problems to do with male and female toilets that it doesn't solve. It also doesn't solve anti trans violence, which is something JKRowling has said that she is concerned about (This thread being about JKRowling)

This conflation is further illustrated when she expresses alarm that ‘A man who intends to have no surgery and take no hormones may now secure himself a Gender Recognition Certificate and be a woman in the sight of the law’.
So this person has every right to be whatever they wanna be. What they don’t have the right to is gaining entry in a biological woman’s space because...you know what? THEY HAVE STILL GOT THE SAME AMOUNT OF MUSCLES AS A MAAAANNN! Why the fuck is this so hard to visualise?

If you're a woman - or girl or boy or man - in the middle of being raped or sexually assaulted, does it matter whether the man doing it was hard-wired to do it or 'just' societally conditioned? Your mind is either going to be paralysed with shock and fear or whirring with strategies for escape and survival.

You won't know or care whether your rapist is convinced they're in the wrong body or not when they're busily abusing yours.

We have few enough safeguards in place now; why would women give up what single sex spaces we have without a fight? Why do you think we take our little boys into the Ladies' with us until they're just too big to accompany us and then check out the Gents' before sending them in and linger outside within earshot until they come safely out?

As a woman, I've been asked by many a random dad to take his little girl(s) into the Ladies' and make sure they wash their hands: I never asked an unknown man to escort my son!

I would stand with anyone and fight for eqaul rights, we are all human and deserve to be treated with the same respect and dignity regardless of race/religion/gender/sexual orientation etc.

I will not however allow my rights to be removed to accommodate another groups. Equality is equality, trans rights do not trump womens rights, we are equals.

I think JK Rowling has expressed herself very well and I honestly don't understand why so many public figures have pulled her down for it. Are we no longer allowed to have opinions and discussions/debate? What gives one person the right to silence another?

Worksheets, violence towards transwomen is just one more facet of male violence. We can't solve this problem by demanding women be even nicer to everyone and give up what protection we do have. Why would anyone think that was the solution?

I do share JKR's concern about violence towards transwomen - any decent person would - but it's not a problem women have created or can fix. We hold up half the sky; don't expect us to shoulder all of it. Time to go to the source of the male violence problem and tackle it there. I have raised a son to be a decent, caring human being and helped educate more boys (and girls) than I can bear to tally at this point in my life. 🤔

I will not however allow my rights to be removed to accommodate another groups. Equality is equality, trans rights do not trump womens rights, we are equals.

Time to go to the source of the male violence problem and tackle it there. I have raised a son to be a decent, caring human being and helped educate more boys (and girls) than I can bear to tally at this point in my life yes, I see what you mean, this is the point, isn't it, the source of male violence problem is how we bring up our boys. If all boys were raised as yours has been, there would no male violence (other than special needs). This needs as much focus as the toilet situation.

@MMN123 weirdly enough I said the same thing, about gender neutral and women only spaces elsewhere on MN earlier. I tend to think most women would gravitate towards the women only space.

I'm just speechless at the level of assurance with which the first post was made, despite the writer then admitting he knew next to nothing about quite a few relevant things.

If people would stop using those born with DSD's ( a whole 0,018% of the population, by the way), as evidence for why sex is a spectrum, it would be ...less wearying. Of that 0,018 of the population, I think nearly every one is male or female, just a slight variant thereof.
There is no spectrum of gametes; no speggs, or spergs.

I don't have a 'gender identity' I don't really hold much truck with stereotypes. I fail by a lot of measures at 'performing the female role' - I don't wear or own any make up, I've never worn or owned any high heels, I'm shite at doing hair, nails and getting dressed up. I don't carry a hand bag etc etc.

But you know what. I'm a woman. I know this because I menstruate, I've been pregnant, laboured and birthed our children, I've suffered fertility problems and pregnancy loss. I've filled my body with hormones to control my reproductive abilities. I've had cervical smear tests and breast exams. I've breastfed my children for a cumulative decade. I've been heckled and physically/sexually assaulted and made to feel unsafe by men, I've been looked over in the workplace for promotion and progression because of my maternity leaves and childcare respinsibilities, I have unfairly shouldered caring burdens within my wider family. I'm anaemic because of gynaecological issues - there's no effective treatment or real interest in finding one because women are not considered in most drug trials etc....

I know I'm a woman. I know how to tell a woman and define who else is a woman.

@TheProdigalKittensReturn

"All Lives Matter" is pretty much the Sign of the Aggressively Clueless at this point.

I just got to the part where wrote that.

So there’s the sign that this is full goad, not sincere.

@newrubylane

I expect all the ‘woke’ women attacking JK will want to support their trans-sisters. They are volunteering to be the human shields. Let them.

The rest of us can go to the women only spaces!

yes, I see what you mean, this is the point, isn't it, the source of male violence problem is how we bring up our boys. If all boys were raised as yours has been, there would no male violence (other than special needs). This needs as much focus as the toilet situation.

Um I think it's a bit optimistic to say that there would be no male violence if mothers just raised their sons right. Also I don't understand how you bring special needs into that.
Also regarding focus, are you kidding me. Women have been 'focusing' on male violence for millennia. The toilet debate is an extension of it. I can't believe you would bring that up like you've just though of it.

printing worksheets yes male violence is the issue, so I tell you what we will re-visit opening up same sex spaces to every Tom, Dick and Harry when male violence rates towards women, transwomen, transmen and other men are practically zero.

I feel confident in saying the sun will have engorged the earth and our solar system dismantled by a red giant, before this happens.

‘The source of violence is how we bring up our boys’ is a roundabout way to describe how the patriarchy works.