Churchill to Hitler

[Pinkkgaga]

So it’s trending on Twitter that people are comparing Churchill to Hitler and saying he was just as bad.
Absolutely disgusting imo, but I’d like to hear everyone’s thoughts on it.

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute..” George Orwell - ‘1984’

@amusedtodeath1

History is what it is. Discussing it won't change it. Take down every statue, they're just statue's. Problem solved we can all get on with our lives in peace and equality....Oh wait.....

This doesn't change a damn thing!

I am getting quite fed up of reading this rather unique piece of wisdom: history is what it is. FFS. Winner write the history. That’s the first, most basic lesson of history.

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right."

George Orwell,1984

@ChaBishkoot

I don’t see any British Museum (including the one in London) contextualising anything including quite HOW they got the vast majority of what they have acquired.

This.

@TulipsInAJug

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right."

George Orwell,1984

Somewhere else, someone else says this about the things that British Museum has. Where did those records come from? Heaven? Also, with every passing year, it’s getting harder to erase things. The beauty of this age is that things are leaving bigger, better imprints. Will be very hard to erase information now and will get harder every day.

Sucking I can see why you don't want to talk about statistics anymore, because they contradict what you're saying.

You yourself said CAIN had the best statistics. I then showed you a table from CAIN saying the loyalists were responsible for more civilian deaths. So now they must be wrong, I guess.

Professor Kennedy is including all the republican paramilitaries in that figure, as far as I can see. From an earlier quote you can see that he is not just talking about the IRA (where he says the IRA were responsible for a certain percentage of all republican paramilitary deaths).

The Wesley Johnston stats -- the last table, as far as I can see, is referring to total deaths, not civilian deaths.

I know it is very distasteful to argue about these kinds of statistics, and again I'm sorry for your experiences. But I have talked to so many people in the UK who are under the impression that the IRA killed huge numbers of civilians and don't know about the level of violence committed by the loyalist paramilitaries. And it matters.

But I will also stop talking about this now because it's not really what the thread is about.

I am glad so many of you will be glad when this ‘hysteria’ is over. I can’t wait when the racism in our lives is over too. I hope they go hand in hand? Or is that asking for too much?

Usual nonsense being repeated on here. He was a racist twat yes.~

He also wasnt anywhere near government during the boer war.

He didnt want to 'gas' anybody- he suggested using tear gas on rioters.

The Bengal famine was caused by a cyclone, Japan invading Burma and widescale rationing even on the british mainland at the time

That may be the first lesson of history at school level, but it gets knocked out of you at degree level quickly.

And the greeks were using concentration camps 3000 years ago, just to kill off that bit of HistoryLite.

It’s disgusting that they’ve covered up his statue - why not tear down the statue of the terrorist Nelson Mandela.

The whole world has gone fucking mad.

I thought I was fairly unshockable, but comparing Mandel to Churchill, Colston or Baden Powell beggars belief.

CherryPavlova
Of course Winston Churchill is comparable to Nelson Mandela - every nation is entitled to its national heroes. You would be shocked then that Shelagh Fogarty (LBC presenter) agrees - she has Irish heritage like you.

Nelson Mandela signed off on the deaths of many innocent people

That seems to have been whitewashed out of history

Not actually much to do with my Irish heritage - more the reasons and the scale.

ANC responsible for 71 killings between 76 and 84. In a fight against Apartheid.
WW2 Bengal Holocaust, Bengal Famine with the deliberate starving to death of 6-7 million Indians as confessed by Churchill in a letter to Roosevelt.

No not comparable - misplaced heroism. Just like Baden Powell who thought Mein Kampf was an excellent book and who was in discussion with the Chief of Staff Hitler Youth about aligning scouting and Hitler Youth. I'm not sure enjoying photos of naked children and his requirements that boys in his care should bathe outside naked is something we would consider heroic nowadays either. He murdered a tribal chief against orders, when in the army; again not something to celebrate.
Why would anyone want statues of racists, paedophiles and those responsible for deaths of so many in their towns and cities? Why would we not celebrate those who have done so much more for humanity? Mary Seacole, Florence Nightingale, Marie Curie, Malala Yousafzai, Elizabeth Garret Anderson?

Why would we not celebrate those who have done so much more for humanity? Mary Seacole, Florence Nightingale, Marie Curie, Malala Yousafzai, Elizabeth Garret Anderson?

It’s a good list, with the exception of Malala. Maybe we should be fundraising to commission new statues and put more energy into that than into fighting over existing statues? It would be more positive use of time, at least.

CherryPavlova
deliberate starving to death of 6-7 million Indians as confessed by Churchill in a letter to Roosevelt

Do you have a link to the letter?

I wasn't previously aware of specific crimes committed by Nelson Mandela or allegations against him;

www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/the-dark-side-of-nelson-mandela/news-story/68f4acdbf2b0b4e6c799e458a55e6cb2

I wish we revered our other British heroes with as much enthusiasm as is attached to Churchill who was of course a complex character that did some both great and terrible things. We really have hit the jackpot when it comes to science and literature in this country. Whilst Churchill has a deserved place in our history, I’ve never understood the rose-tinted whitewashed blind adoration. It’s always been our inventors and our scientific and literary and figures that fill me with the most pride. Newton, Fleming, Darwin, Dawkins, Stevenson, Graham Bell, Brunel, Chaucer, Dickens, Shakespeare, Austen, Defoe, Tolkien, Hardy etc... I’m sure they have their faults too but they have woven our cultural and intellectual landscape and inspired generations of graduates. I guess the effects of their accomplishments are more tangible. We have given so much to the world and so much to be proud of.

I wasn't previously aware of specific crimes committed by Nelson Mandela or allegations against him;

Member of a terrorist organisation ?

Time for quite a few of you to take your rose tinted glasses off. You can acknowledge that someone was a bad person, even if they did a few good things.

Member of a terrorist organisation?

I remember Nelson Mandela being released from prison - I was young and naive at the time.

HIStory will have been written to paint him in a good light. It would have been much easier to sweep his war crimes under the carpet in those days.

I couldn't give any shits if all the statues of the "great men" get smashed to bits.

I remember Nelson Mandela being released from prison - I was young and naive at the time.

So can I . Maybe not so young, as I can recall singing "Free Nelson Mandela" at various marches in the 80s.

But I'm pretty certain that the ANC was banned in SA, so Mandela was a criminal for being a member. Something Mrs Thatcher never let the UK public forget, although mercifully they generally ignored her on this one, and continued boycotting South African goods (mainly produce). Which is one reason the Israelis have gotten smart and maneuvered to neuter such moves in their direction.

Three things I grew up never believing I'd see:

Peace in Northern Ireland.
Fall of Berlin wall and collapse of communism.
Release (let alone eventual premiership) of Nelson Mandela.

Maybe I've had all the good things that will ever happen in my lifetime, and it's all a return to darkness from here ?

(There's also a complementary list of all the things that were supposed to be 30 years old now that we are still waiting for ...)