The Queen Victoria statue in Leeds

[Sugarplumfairy65]

Her statue has been vandalised with graffiti. The BLM logo and slave trader spray painted all over it. Why?

[Pixxie7]

King George 11 signed the abolishment of the slave trade 1807. So by the time Victoria came to the throne it had already been banished. So she cannot be blamed for it. She did give a home to a little black girl and treated her well.

[thatmustbenigelwiththebrie]

I live in that area of Leeds and there is BLM graffiti everywhere, not just the statues, including on the outside wall of my terrace house 😢.

I understand people are passionate and also that they love graffiti (round here anyway) but I don't think that vandalism enamours people to a cause.

[ArriettyJones]

@Leaannb

Because she was a racist. She isn't immune because she has been dead for over a hundred years....I'm waiting for the vandalism of George Washington and Jefferson monuments. It's just a matter of time

Seriously?

She was a rich person of her time, like most people memorialised in bronze or stone. (It’s unusual for a statue that she was even female.) Even now, the over-privileged stratum of society tend to hold the most reactionary views.

The statues of slave owners need to come down, be moved or contextualised, but if we spin that out to include everyone who ever held a bigoted POV, we are going to have ransack our physical environment. Are we going to graffiti and destroy everything around us? I’d rather have more heritage interpretation boards and so on to explain who people were, what they did, why they were memorialised etc.

[ukgift2016]

Statues and next will be buildings and books.

You cannot wipe out history and the way it's being done...the government is allowing them to run riot.

[ArriettyJones]

@thatmustbenigelwiththebrie

I live in that area of Leeds and there is BLM graffiti everywhere, not just the statues, including on the outside wall of my terrace house 😢.

I understand people are passionate and also that they love graffiti (round here anyway) but I don't think that vandalism enamours people to a cause.

Oh you poor thing. I would hate that. I am a big BLM supporter but I cannot stand mess and chaos.

Would everyone sticking big #BLM posters prominently in their windows help protect you from a recurrence?

[MaggieMay1972]

The Slavery Abolition. Act was passed before she was even crowned and anyway she was only 18 when she became Queen so vandalising her statue in that way is both illegal and for the historically stupid.

[EdithWeston]

Victoria wasn't ruling by divine right. So I would prefer to see the politicians statues go first.

But not in one grand cull.

The attempts to remove Colston had been going on for decades, and the Mayor does not regret the removal. I think that sort of more considered, long term approach is the right one. Give communities who have not yet expressed their views, a chance to do so. Review public art. All previous public objections in the last few decades should be reviewed as a matter of some priority

And a general review, such as that proposed by Khan, sounds like a good idea.

I'd prefer to see statues removed from outdoors send to museums (where they may or may not be displayed, according to curators' and governors' wishes and nature of exhibition) rather than defaced or destroyed.

[EmperorCovidula]

@Andthenthenewone I think the problem is more that heroes are flawed just like the rest of us. I can think of few heroic or otherwise notable people that weren’t arseholes in some way. Obviously due to the history of Britain a lot of the people who made important contributions to the country were racists, imperialists or, slavers. If they weren’t they were most likely misogynists or pedophiles or hit their children or whatever.

We have a ‘hero’ in our family. He was an important part of the movement to dismantle colonialism and made many sacrifices to to liberate his people. He also forced his family to make those sacrifices, his poor wife and children bore the brunt of his sacrifices. He may have been a wonderful figure in public but he was horrible at home. God knows, chances are that he may have held racist, classist or misogynistic views given the cultural norms at the time.

[Monty27]

Think imperialism. It's no wonder people don't want to see effigies of history.
It's back to the drawing board. No shit.

[Bluemoooon]

There could be a backlash from this - in fact are the people doing the graffiti etc actually pro BAME or just shit stirrers.

Round here many monuments to whatever went up in the late 1800s when the area, which is farming and forestry, was wealthy, so rich people could afford to commission monuments etc. to commemorate whatever cause they felt strongly about.

[THisbackwithavengeance]

Tearing statues down is ridiculous and meaningless. Like it or not, QV was an important historical figure and whether she was 'good' or 'bad' or 'nice' or 'not nice' is irrelevant. Judging historical figures on today's morals is pointless in any case.

Using the same logic you might as well tear down the pyramids of Egypt.

FFS.

[zscaler]

what could she have realistically done to change things as a woman in those times.

She wasn’t just ‘A woman in those times’ she was the queen and the head of the British empire. Sliiiightly different.

[Melia100]

People really need to read up on the Khmer Rouge and their concept of the Year Zero, and decide how sane/desirable such a project is.

[Livelovebehappy]

I really don’t get why people would feel the need to graffiti her statue. What people aren’t getting at the moment is that the mindset of society in the Victorian times was totally alien to how we view things today. Women were treated as second class citizens, with no voting rights. Being homosexual was a crime. People with mental health issues thrown into asylums for years, alongside women who gave birth out of wedlock. You can’t deface every monument from our historical past just because by today’s standards, they fell short.

[zscaler]

@Aveisenim

The problem with not seeing colour is that you then don’t see patterns.

If you don’t see colour then you don’t see that black people are nearly ten times more likely to be subjected to stop and search tactics by the police.

If you don’t see colour then you don’t see that black women are five times more likely to have a still birth than white women in the U.K.

If you don’t see colour, then you don’t see that black people and other POC have to submit on average 80% more job applications before being hired than their white counterparts.

If you don’t see colour, then you don’t see that black male graduates in London are nearly twice as likely to be unemployed as their white counterparts.

You aren’t helping anyone by pretending not to see colour. It isn’t a sign of inclusivity or tolerance on your part. It’s a sign that you would rather not acknowledge or confront the very real patterns of racism we see in this country because it’s uncomfortable for you. That isn’t good enough.

[Pugsrus]

I was in full support of BLM at the start ,hoping the protests would change policing in America.
But I’ve lost all My sympathy now ,the rioting ,graffiti,pulling down of statues in U.K. ,is just an excuse to cause mayhem,
I’m an average joe ,fairly liberal,I like to see things done fairly ,I was and still am outraged by what happened in America,but to say U.K. is the same is rediculous.
I don’t want to see BLM graffiti everywhere,
I know BLM ,I don’t need it graffitied on every corner .
There is more than one way to skin a cat ,and this is not it .
BLM now risk turning people against them ,who like me were very supportive at the start .

[Pugsrus]

Regarding the statues ,I can see why they would cause offence ,but let’s have a healthy debate about what to do about it ,by tearing them down ,people who may of actually agreed they need to go ,didn’t get a say in the matter ,and that divides communities.
We could of put a plack on each one ,explaining the statues history,and how we acknowledge their actions in some respects were not acceptable.
Or we could move them all to a museum..
I think people would of understood why they were offensive and would of worked towards an agreeable solution.
To just graffiti them or tear them down with no rational discussion,will mean people who would of been supportive,may not be.
History is how we learn from the past ,if we erase it ,how can we learn from it .

[Sweetlikecoca]

@Pugsrus

I was in full support of BLM at the start ,hoping the protests would change policing in America.
But I’ve lost all My sympathy now ,the rioting ,graffiti,pulling down of statues in U.K. ,is just an excuse to cause mayhem,
I’m an average joe ,fairly liberal,I like to see things done fairly ,I was and still am outraged by what happened in America,but to say U.K. is the same is rediculous.
I don’t want to see BLM graffiti everywhere,
I know BLM ,I don’t need it graffitied on every corner .
There is more than one way to skin a cat ,and this is not it .
BLM now risk turning people against them ,who like me were very supportive at the start .

What are your suggestions? Please spread your positivity.

[Pugsrus]

Stop rioting ,stop graffiti,stop violence Stop tearing down statues
Would be a fantastic start

[randomer]

@Tombradysleftkneecap, yes true, haircuts, shopping then statues. What is the point of statues anyway?

[ChateauMargaux]

Always interesting to read other people's thoughts on this.

The Colston statue had been a source of controversy for nearly 40 years. In that time many attempts were made to suggest a memorial to the slaves or a plaque explaining his role in the slave trade. 40 years to formally recognise the damage done by the establishment at the time and in particular the part played by this man. To put him in context might have been enough, an explanatory plaque would have been something. 40 years of talking about it... solved in moments this week.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Edward_Colston

[zscaler]

@Melia100

If you can’t tell the difference between protestors graffitiing a statue and an oppressive government regime which directly led to the genocide of 2 million people, then it’s you who has a little bit of history to learn.

[Sweetlikecoca]

@Pugsrus

Stop rioting ,stop graffiti,stop violence Stop tearing down statues
Would be a fantastic start

That’s how people felt about Gay people once upon a time. Until they spoke out and stood their ground. Protests aren’t peaceful in most cases.

[My0My]

Many statues commemorate local people who did something good (as perceived at the time) or funded a big local project. People liked monuments of royals and other people who visited or had a connection with a town.

My local Town has John Hampden who refused to pay ship tax in the 17th century. It also has David Bowie and Ronnie Barker both of whom appeared at a venue in the town centre in their youth. So a strange mix many would say.

Heroes are actually quite difficult to define. I don’t really think we need many more statues. The Victorians loved them but I actually think their time has passed. Perhaps each town and city should be asked to vote on what they keep now? After all, we now understand how referenda work so maybe ask everyone?

The Bristol mayor now agrees with the Colston statue coming down but has been in post for how many years but did nothing!? However he’s done other things that have now been overlooked.

Slavery cannot be erased from history. People should understand what happened and who was involved from a world wide perspective. By the way, at least 10 presidents of the USA were slave owners. If you visit some of the historical houses there you can see slave quarters. Monticello has them for example. I cannot see this important house belonging to Jefferson being torn down and what about his university in Charlottesville? Where does this end?

[My0My]

I might have a dim memory but I don’t recall gay riots, Grafitti, violence and tearing down statues (which ones??) in the uk about gay rights. We don’t have to follow other countries. Maybe there were riots and violence elsewhere but I thought it was by education and reasoned debate here.