Racism in Harry Potter?

[tipsyandtim]

Moving away from the JK Rowling transgender comments that seem to have caused a lot of drama on Twitter, I’ve also seen a lot of discussion about the HP books themselves. Many are claiming that they’re inherently pretty racist for numerous reasons- main characters are all white, characters of other ethnicities are usually minor and seem like tokens and tend to have quite stereotypical names- ‘Cho Chang’ was trending on Twitter as an example of a racist name choice.

Wondered what everybody’s thoughts were? I don’t agree that the text shows JK as ‘incredibly racist’ which some are claiming but I think in hindsight she wouldn’t have made some of the character choices if she could write it again. I suppose a lot of content was planned and created about 25 years ago now and what seemed like adding diversity and representation is actually seen as badly thought-out now, even though I think she had well-meaning intentions.

SnuggyBuggy I agree, but I don't think it's generational. Many chat sites are becoming more judgemental, and one is frivolous at ones peril. And there is, often, a tendency to reduce issues to black and white building blocks, rather than existing in grey

Surely it is natural to write epresentimg the community you live in, and Edinburgh has a far smaller black population than Lomdon for example, this. Is why the % of black people is 3% in the whole of the UK but 0.7% in Scotland. Of the ethnic minority groups in Edinburgh I would suspect that Indian and aisan are the largest minorities especially in the late 90s when she was writing her books but still a much smaller. % than the UK overall and even that is lower than when you consider particular areas of England.

@AuntieStella

SnuggyBuggy I agree, but I don't think it's generational. Many chat sites are becoming more judgemental, and one is frivolous at ones peril. And there is, often, a tendency to reduce issues to black and white building blocks, rather than existing in grey

You could be right, maybe I'm making assumptions about the ages of some of these people because it's a more recent development.

I just miss the Harry Potter communities of the 00s. I mean we had the shipping wars between the R/Hr faction and the H/Hr that went a bit crazy but I'll take that over the gender identity political correctness crap any day

She got lots of names for the book from a graveyard in Edinburgh

Let's not even question this. She is not a racist.These white biological males are clearly trying anything and everything to slur her name. Also, she is a real human being and if they throw enough mud, something will stick, so let's just remember the things she is standing for are no more or less than the truth, and she doesn't have to be perfect at everything in order to say those truths. Let's not get embroiled in this hate campaign when she is standing up for women.

I would think its people with a particular agenda joining forces, probably international, and making sure they post on any reference to Trans in the media.

@Batqueen

Cho and Chang are both surnames. Korean ones.

She could have done a lot better there let’s face it.

Lazy research. Cho is a first/given name in other countries/cultures.

Also I'd expect the wizarding culture to have their own conventions. The Black family are Caucasian and (presumably) British and use unusual names.

The books were written in, and set in, a time in the UK when it wasn't particular culturally diverse 🤣 They were written in the late 90s. That is so ridiculous.

@ZombieFan

Harry Potter? What about Star Wars! Darth Vader is dressed in Black and Luke Skywalker in white, racist as hell.

And why are angels in white but demons always in shades of black.

Everything is racist when your eyes have been opened.

I always thought the white/black symbolism here was more due to light/dark as in day/night.

In terms of Hermione, surely JK Rowling wouldn't have okayed the illustration of her on the front of The Prisoner of Azkaban - she's on Buckbeak's back with Harry and very clearly white.

*if she'd intended her to be black I mean

Seriously, can some people literally not stand to see a successful woman, who donated her way out of the billionaire list, have a voice for women?

Let's be honest, that's why she's under 'critique' atm.

Thank you. We need to shout this from the roof tops.

I always assumed Cho was a shortened form of a longer name.

Hermione could be any colour, really its not part of her character, in the books enough to say she must be white, or black or Muslim, or Chinese etc.

You could, in theory, claim the racist bit was when they cast the movies. As they cast 3 white children.

I suspect if it was cast today, it wouldn't be 3 white children. Which is good.

However the first movie is 20 years old. It will have been cast about 1-2 years before that.

This isnt about racisim. This is about TRAs trying to hijack the current mood to put this womn in her place.

The more people talk about the racial dynamics of the books, the longer we are allowing TRAs to use racisim to further their own agenda.

They don't give a shit whether the books are racially diverse enough. They give a shit about their own agenda. Which is 'women shut up....we will tell you whats what!'

Oh...and star wars. There was a bit of a kick off when the cast John Boyega to play Finn, who starts off as storm trooper.

I recall seeing on twitter that storm troopers couldn't be black 🤷‍♀️

🤣 They were written in the late 90s. That is so ridiculous.

No, you're wrong. She finished the first book in 1995. And the first one is set in 1991, not a great shock since she had the initial idea in 1990. You should really fact check before wading in.

Even if she did intend for the main characters to be white. That isn't racist!?
I'm starting to get concerned with what is being classed as racist this last week.
Yes there is covert racism like assuming someone would be better at sport or can rap because they're black (or similar stereotypes), good at maths because they're Chinese etc. But casting white kids for a book set in a boarding school in England ISN'T RACIST!!!
This is why we've got a generation of young adults with zero resilience and ability to gain perspective.

Doesn’t change the ridiculous comment that the U.K. was not very multicultural then. She lived in a London.

Even if she did intend for the main characters to be white. That isn't racist!? - I totally agree.

I feel like the representation of ethnicities in HP are pretty reflective of my school in the 90s. I'm reading The Order of the Phoenix at the moment and although not 'main' characters people like Angelina Johnson are regularly featured - both as a strong leader (of the Quidditch team, taking over after Oliver Wood leaves, not afraid to assert her authority) and also within Dumbledore's Army. There is a Cho sub-plot and the Patil twins are just as featured as characters like Neville or Seamus.

@SiaPR

Doesn’t change the ridiculous comment that the U.K. was not very multicultural then. She lived in a London.

But she hasn't based the book in London. And London does not represent the rest of the UK.

The Dursley's are as un-London as they come. That is Harry's experience and Hogwarts reflects that.

@CrispsForTea

I would disagree as she tends to portray intolerance of differences using magical creatures such as house elves and centaurs, and also with wizards, half-blood and muggle-born rather than skin colour. Malfoy uses the slur "mudblood" which seems to be taken in a similar way to the n word in real life society.

Plus, she rarely states skin colour in her books: Hermione is traditionally portrayed by black actors in the Cursed child.

I guess you have a point with Cho Chang, Parvati Patil etc. but how else would you suggest she portrays diversity in a book with no pictures other than saying "she was of Chinese descent".

Exactly

One thing I noticed when reading the books was when she described Kingsley shackholt she said he was black. But it’s like, you wouldn’t describe a white person and being white. Which she never did in the books, maybe I’m just being a fussy ass though

She was living in Edinburgh @SiaPR where she still lives. Not London

Iheart, I'm not sure how many times she does that, but if it's at the beginning of OOTP, she gives a quick description of all of the wizards and witches there as Harry first sees them (Tonks is young with violet hair, Hestia is dark haired and pink cheeked etc) . If Kingsley is very clearly in her head as black I don't think it's the worst place to put it - I don't think she's really commenting on his race as much as his appearance.

I've seen a few people saying is problem with the names Parvati and Padma Patil. I am probably ignorant, but I want to learn, what is wrong with them?

I thought maybe they were names from different cultures but from a bit of internet research it seems that Patil is a Gujarati Hindu name and Parvati and Padma are Hindu named used by Gujarati people.

Is it that they're seen as "obvious" Indian names and Rowling should have researched deeper to find more unusual names? But then would she have risked choosing names that no one uses anymore and being ridiculed for being so out of touch? (I know she did that with British names, but it's easier to take that risk with your own culture than it is with other people's.)

For what it's worth I first read Harry Potter soon after reading Salman Rushdie's Midnight's Children in which there are characters called Parvati and Padma ( not related though, if I remember correctly) and also a philosopher's stone so I always thought that Rowling chose to give those names to two of her characters as a bit of a nod to that book.

@SiaPR

Doesn’t change the ridiculous comment that the U.K. was not very multicultural then. She lived in a London.

No she didn't. Try using the device you're MNing on to fact check some things before you post.