Racism in Harry Potter?

[tipsyandtim]

Moving away from the JK Rowling transgender comments that seem to have caused a lot of drama on Twitter, I’ve also seen a lot of discussion about the HP books themselves. Many are claiming that they’re inherently pretty racist for numerous reasons- main characters are all white, characters of other ethnicities are usually minor and seem like tokens and tend to have quite stereotypical names- ‘Cho Chang’ was trending on Twitter as an example of a racist name choice.

Wondered what everybody’s thoughts were? I don’t agree that the text shows JK as ‘incredibly racist’ which some are claiming but I think in hindsight she wouldn’t have made some of the character choices if she could write it again. I suppose a lot of content was planned and created about 25 years ago now and what seemed like adding diversity and representation is actually seen as badly thought-out now, even though I think she had well-meaning intentions.

Seems like petty revenge because she dared to say that women shouldnt be erased.

No where is it mentioned that Hermione was white. It was assumed

Aside from the part that mentions her white face?

The Bankers are dodgy as fuck

Clymene

We do Austen sometimes and we get into really creepy speculative detail about Mr Collins' sex life, too.

Also the Chalet School books. Additionally, there was a great thread about homosexual coding in Dorothy L. Sayers' novels, for MNers who were ready to attempt less accessible literature; it was led by someone who I suspect to teach English Literature at university, so presumably she has more of an excuse.

My point has nothing to do with the schools though, the Quidditch World Cup was the issue. Is Canada specifically mentioned in the HP books? If so, I don't remember it.

I don't remember it being mentioned, but it is a very long time since I read them, so I may have forgotten those kinds of details. I didn't see most of the films so I have no idea if it's mentioned in any.

The white British names aren't typical of actual names either. There's more serverus's than jacks in general. Wizards are not supposed to be like muggles. They are supposed to be a bit odd, with unusual names and clothes, living in crooked houses on the edge of towns.

The whole point of Harry Potter is that it is against racism. Pure bloods and mudbloods.

@zscaler

Because it’s got zero to do with her portrayal of race and everything to do with finding any stick they can to beat her for being pro-women.

From my perspective, it looks like the complete opposite. These criticisms about racism and anti-semitism have been around for years, and people are now bending themselves into mental pretzels to justify it because they are supportive of her stance on transgenderism.

How to get it totally backwards.

Good point @Maduixa, one of my friends is called Sharon which wasn't uncommon in the 80s/90s however her parents were from the Philippines. She's always said people assume her parents chose that name to make her "fit in" etc but she was named after the famous Filipino singer/actress.

fwiw I think...

a) Dumbledore was always gay and too read that part about his summer with Grindelwald as alluding to him being in love with him

b) don't think Hermione was originally written as black but don't think JK is trying to retrifit it so much as lend her support to a black actress playing her by saying it did not contradict anything she wrote, iyswim

c) think Hermione's stance on house elves was meant to be read as the right side, with those laughing at her being in the wrong and agree, the way Kreacher played out was a clear indication that Hermione had the right idea all along

Sorry for going off on a tangent, but I was wondering if anyone had watched the ‘A Very Potter Musical’ series? When Cho Chang is introduced Ginny goes up to the Asian girl and introduces herself and she says “I ain’t Cho Chang b*” and a very white southern Cho Chang is introduced. Ginny is berated by Ron for being racist

Incidentally, there's a character called Chang Chong-Chen in Hergé's Tintin series, which sounds pretty damning based on this very convincing Twit Logic. ( OMG, was Hergé a racist???

Might I direct you to Tintin in the Congo.

Fully in agreement with your three points @SharkasticRhymes.

One of the themes that has come up here, and comes up again and again in real life, is an inability or resistance to grasp that people can be good in some areas and bad in other areas of their life. People are nuanced, they have shades of grey, they aren't completely good or completely bad, and they learn and develop as they go through life.

Someone above wrote a very good post about how it is more difficult and more admirable to make the actual change than it is to criticise people in the past for not making that change sooner.

Hermione could be white or black. We don’t know for sure. It’s a pity that the movies didn’t cast a black actress in that role.

Oh Herge was most definitely racist. I love tintin but it's hugely problematic (and not just tintin in the Congo either). I have been very careful about which books I've shared with my children (and the Congo book is no longer published but there are lots of dodgy stereotypes in most of them)

@TooOldForSims I wondered whether the widespread assumption that Lavender Brown was black came from the fact that the only other prominent fictional Lavender was the little girl in the film version of Matilda, who was black.

P.S. No one is ever too old for The Sims

@zscaler Actually the HP community as a whole have removed the art from the artist as the majority vehemently oppose JKR's recent (and not-so-recent) Twitter rampages. They seem to be at odds with the inclusive, anti-prejudicial viewpoint the books promote. (Let's not get into that here though...) The books are really not racist, and to make them seem so you need to take things out of context, spin them on their head and completely ignore all the other allegories of race and racism (pure blood/half blood etc) that are supportive of non-prejudiced views

But a) herge is dead b) he's not a woman and c) he isn't responsible for the hopes and dreams of a lot of scurvy blue haired university students

@SionnachRua Seamus is Irish in both books and films. It's Dean Thomas who is the West Ham fan

People are nuanced, they have shades of grey, they aren't completely good or completely bad, and they learn and develop as they go through life.

Yes, although this doesn't seem to be acceptable any more.

Just be clear that even if Hermione was clearly stated to be a white character, that still wouldn't be racist.

It is not racist to write about Caucasian people

I suspect you could find racism everywhere if you looked hard enough.

@Brefugee @SionnachRua Seamus is Irish in both books and films. It's Dean Thomas who is the West Ham fan

Apologies I had trouble posting and then found the other poster to tag!

REad the books Lavenders race is never mentioned. I puctured her as white, but she could have been black or Asian.

@britnay Its a boarding school in the UK, a very large proportion of the children are going to be white.

It's actually make-believe.