Racism in Harry Potter?

[tipsyandtim]

Moving away from the JK Rowling transgender comments that seem to have caused a lot of drama on Twitter, I’ve also seen a lot of discussion about the HP books themselves. Many are claiming that they’re inherently pretty racist for numerous reasons- main characters are all white, characters of other ethnicities are usually minor and seem like tokens and tend to have quite stereotypical names- ‘Cho Chang’ was trending on Twitter as an example of a racist name choice.

Wondered what everybody’s thoughts were? I don’t agree that the text shows JK as ‘incredibly racist’ which some are claiming but I think in hindsight she wouldn’t have made some of the character choices if she could write it again. I suppose a lot of content was planned and created about 25 years ago now and what seemed like adding diversity and representation is actually seen as badly thought-out now, even though I think she had well-meaning intentions.

The thing about Hermione is - if JK had explicitly described her as black she would now be criticised as racist because of all the ‘mudblood’ abuse she gets.

This is a good point. No matter what she would be criticised.

@480Widdio

Oh for goodness sake! I despair,clearly you have never even read the books.

Yes you being unreasonable.

I assumed YANBU meant she wasn’t unreasonable in thinking the books weren’t racist...I don’t think it’s very clear.

Cho Chang is apparently a name that doesn't make sense linguistically and also someone on twitter claimed she got it from 'ching Chong' which is a reach. I expect she just googled 'Chinese names' and picked one, with not a clue that she would have her motivations picked over to the nth degree 25 years later.

The newt scamander films haven't helped tbh with the introduction of the nagini character who it turns out was an enslaved Asian woman trapped in the body of a snake. Also the Jonny depp association that was a bit toxic.

Frankly I think she did ok for the time she was writing and her books are no worse for representation than anything else written for children in the 90s. She's being scrutinised now because of the 'transphobia' claims which is not fair.

Chang is also a Chinese surname I think. I have a chinese friend who’s surname is Chang anyway.

But Nagini is an Indian name- I have an acquaintance named Nagini.

But I do think that she would have been writing Hermione as White, because of all the mudblood stuff- you just couldn't have those type of comments aimed at a Black-Caribbean character, it would have been picked up on years ago.

Really curious to know what success would look like in the minds of those accusing JK's writings of racism. How many of the main characters should she have made BAME? One, two, all of them? Just one and she'd be accused of tokenism. Writing mainly BAME characters I'm sure she'd be attacked for writing characters of an ethnicity of which she had no lived experience. And how is she supposed to represent other cultures without using culturally identifiable names? Seems like a totally un-winnable game to me in which she is set up to be criticised whatever she does. I don't know how anyone dare create anything these days to be honest. Requires skin like a rhino.

But I assume the snake is named Nagini from the mythical Naga creatures, presumably that's a link via Sanskrit?

@CodenameVillanelleI have a Chinese friend whose first name is Chong. I doubt his parents were being racist when they named him

@Amymone good point

Dumbledore was gay? Was that in a bit I skim read?

I remember seeing Lee Jordan (?) in the film and thinking, "I didn't realise he was black" but then that's my white privilege that I assume everyone in books is white unless it specifically says otherwise.

I thought the level of diversity amongst the cast of characters in Harry Potter was pretty realistic for the UK at the time it was set. I'm not sure I'm a fan of unrealistic diversity, it can come across as patronising.

She does mention Angelina and Kingsley being black, and she says Lee Jordon has dreadlocks.

I always assumed Hermione was white? She's described as going pink/red in the face when embarrassed, brown after her holiday and white when scared.

Cho Chang is an example of not being able to do right from wrong. If I was a writer I would find it difficult to write about a character from a different ethnicity as there would be more chance of offending. The outsider book had an original white character but Jason Bateman cast Cynthia Erivo A black woman, she then had input with the script writer how she presented the character. We need more black writers and when cast to Hollywood ways of portraying characters to be inclusive. Asking a writer to include characters they have no experience is always going to be clumsy.

I know some people are upset that the goblins that run the banks are 'Jewish coded' big crooked noses, in charge of money, and that the house elves are portrayed as being happy being abused slaves with no life of their own.

I feel like they're all kinda stretches though.

Speaking as an Irish person, Seamus in the books always annoyed me- an Irish character who blows shit up? Groundbreaking writing, that. That wizarding world Ireland doesn't appear to be free from Britain galled me too.

I think it's fine to look critically at books and examine racist depictions in them. By doing so we learn how to make future books better.

I’ve seen people say little effort has gone into her name, it sounds very close to ‘ching chong’ and that Cho isn’t even a Chinese first name so it’s sort of like she’s quickly thought up a ‘Chinese-sounding’ name without a lot of thought process

I don't even know what you mean in terms of what it sounds like, but Cho is definitely a girl's name in Japan and Korea, and Chang is a common Chinese and Korean surname. I don't think Cho's heritage is ever stated, is it possible that she's Korean? Or of Chinese descent but was given a Japanese name?

@Pinkblueberry

Many are claiming that they’re inherently pretty racist for numerous reasons- main characters are all white, characters of other ethnicities are usually minor

That’s the case for many books. BAME authors and characters are very much under-represented in the publishing world - that’s a problem that certainly needs addressing. But I don’t think that makes an individual book without BAME main characters inherently racist. I think we do need to move forward and learn though and it’s certainly worth questioning - Hermione Granger is portrayed as black in The Cursed Child and J K Rowling may well have thought why she didn’t explicitly do that in the books. If I read the book again I would probably imagine her that way. As time moves on authors and publishers hopefully pick up on these kind if missed opportunities.

I agree with the above. There needs to be more BAME voices in the literary world generally. Also more books where there is a mix of races within groups of characters eg white friends/work colleagues etc and BAME mixing together. as far as is realistic, of course. The beauty of Harry Potter being that they are fantasy so this is do-able. Might be unrealistic in an historial novel, for example.

"Hermione's white face was sticking out from behind a tree".

I don't believe Rowling is racist but I do not believe Hermione was anything other than white in the books.

I think the characters (as they are portrayed in the film) are probably pretty representative of ethnicity in Britain actually so the comment is totally baseless. The books don't mention skin colour or race afaik, there are just 3 names where you'd make an assumption (if they weren't 'stereotypical', you'd be assuming they were all white and complaining even more!!)

But anyway, it's pretty clear in the books that no one cares about race, Harry's ball date is Parvati and his first girlfriend is Cho, Ginny goes out with Dean (who I'm not sure if ever mentioned as being black anyway) and Fred goes out with angeline. Setting a pretty clear example to kids that race doesn't matter, who would be completely oblivious to any connotations re Cho or Parvati (so am I to be honest).

So yes, totally unreasonable statement.

These 'activists' are just looking for another stick to beat her with. They're angry that she expressed that biological sex exists. They don't like facts.

@Zaphodsotherhead

My agent asked me why I didn't write more black characters.

I asked her to point out to me where I mention any colour at all. I don't. Ever. Readers read the characters as they colour that they are, or assume they are all 'meant to be white' because I am.

I just never ever mention it, unless the character's ethnicity is part of their 'journey'. Banging on about a character being black or Asian simply to make the point that they are, is just as racist as never writing characters of colour at all, surely?

Exactly.

I asked her to point out to me where I mention any colour at all. I don't. Ever

I don't have the books with me but I'm SURE she says Kingsley and Angelina Johnson are black.

I think she was clumsy with Cho's name but she started writing in Scotland in the 90's, not in the US or elsewhere in 2020 where the mix of ethnicities is far more diverse. I'm sure she never knew people would still be talking about the books in 2020 or that they would have been read around the world.

Yes, perhaps she could have done better but she was tackling issues of inequality and tried to include minorities even if it was done clumsily.

Something that made me laugh in the Cho Chang hoo-ha was that she'd been written as an Asian sterotype as well - nerdy (Ravenclaw, along with how many other non-Asian kids??) and a snitch. 1. I've never come across the Asian = snitch thing in my life and 2. In the BOOKS that JKR actually wrote, Cho has a friend and she's the snitch. That friend wasn't written into the FILM which JKR didn't write. These people really are as thick as they sound.

@Hangingover

I asked her to point out to me where I mention any colour at all. I don't. Ever

I don't have the books with me but I'm SURE she says Kingsley and Angelina Johnson are black.

Zaphods was referring to their own books, not the Harry Potter series.