Racism in Harry Potter?

[tipsyandtim]

Moving away from the JK Rowling transgender comments that seem to have caused a lot of drama on Twitter, I’ve also seen a lot of discussion about the HP books themselves. Many are claiming that they’re inherently pretty racist for numerous reasons- main characters are all white, characters of other ethnicities are usually minor and seem like tokens and tend to have quite stereotypical names- ‘Cho Chang’ was trending on Twitter as an example of a racist name choice.

Wondered what everybody’s thoughts were? I don’t agree that the text shows JK as ‘incredibly racist’ which some are claiming but I think in hindsight she wouldn’t have made some of the character choices if she could write it again. I suppose a lot of content was planned and created about 25 years ago now and what seemed like adding diversity and representation is actually seen as badly thought-out now, even though I think she had well-meaning intentions.

Harry Potter is not racist 🙄.

Erm Choo is a Korean name:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChooJa-hyunn_

][https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chooo_Soo-hyun]]

There are also men called Choo including a footballer & a rapper.

Its also popular in Singapore.

Chang is a korean last name.

Your deciding it "sounds like ching chong" - demonstrates YOUR OWN racism. Actually.

HP is definitely not racist. Love HP and refuse to have my love of the books tainted by racism propaganda.

All stories I’ve read involving goblins tend to have them down mines mining gold and being very greedy for gold. It’s a goblin thing. I remember reading it years ago in ‘the princess and the goblins’.

I always thought JKR took that folklore and used it for her goblin bankers.

[quote Clymene]@AdalbertWaffling absolutely a gcse English class should be enthusiastic! But this isn't one. And having discussions with adults who think they're still in one is a tiny bit unsettling. [/quote]
Are you really an English teacher @Clymene?
I’ve been one for 30 years, and all the ones I know have these sort of discussions all the time, what with being, you know, passionate about reading and criticism...
It’s very sad if you are and think analysing literature is something g for the immature and not something for real life.

I really don’t think I can’t take much more!!

@SoberCurious

Your deciding it "sounds like ching chong" - demonstrates YOUR OWN racism. Actually.

Actually it shows I grew up in the 70s when it was not an uncommon comment.

Theres some argument that goblin germanic folklore is itself anitsemitic, Frazzled. I wasnt so convinced myself at firsdt but then looking into it more, I think she should have written them differently.

The thing is JK wrote books, books require the readers imagination to visualise the characters which is why she never mentions their skin tone. So whoever was reading it can visualise the character. Hermione in your mind's eye could well be a black character. Cho Chang could have been visualised as a Korean character by many.

She never wrote the books with the intention of them becoming screen plays! She never imagined in her wildest dreams it would turn in to what it has 20 years ago.

It's white hollywood you should direct your questions at, the casters and producers, not JK if you want to ask questions about why certain characters are who they are.

If you notice though, as the film's went on the casting becomes more diverse wherever they can. But Hermione was white in film 1 she couldn't then change to being a black actress in film 5, and I'm sure the fantastic beasts which are written as screen plays will have more diverse characters, because that's what JK is writing a screen play.

Amymone. 16.15

Exactly! This racism and racial equality is just getting stupid now! I doubt there are many countries that are as diverse as the UK and mostly we all rub along just fine. I have no problem with anyone, until they break the law.

Racism, imo, is just another form of bullying. It's been given a grander status but that's all it is.

These protests are nothing to do with BLM. Some people genuinely have cause to protest, I accept that, but when little Emily Jones is murdered in front of her family, on Mother's Day, and people don't protest, well, what can I say? Seems black lives are the only lives that matter.

'Are the Goblins in J.K. Rowling’s Harry Potter Anti-Semitic?'

www.heyalma.com/are-the-goblins-in-j-k-rowlings-harry-potter-anti-semitic/

@cardibach - goodness no, whatever made you think that? My point was that the level of debate is akin to that of a gcse English class. While there is much to be admired in one where a teacher inspires passionate debate, one hopes that as an adult, the arguments become slightly more nuanced. This discussion is anything but.

There have been token black persons in movies for ever - Hero is white, his really nice and friendly family-man (wife and child photo in pocket) sidekick is black and gets killed a third of the way through to give the hero (and the audience) more reason to be determined to get the baddy.

I dont agree with the ridiculous statement that 'jk rowling is transphobic' in that article btw

These protests are nothing to do with BLM. Some people genuinely have cause to protest, I accept that, but when little Emily Jones is murdered in front of her family, on Mother's Day, and people don't protest, well, what can I say? Seems black lives are the only lives that matter.

The murder of that poor girl is shocking but she died at the hands of a mentally ill woman. It is no way comparable to the BLM movement.

Different series but I'm still pissed the movies made Uriah white... His fucking skin color is even mentioned in the books. He was one of my favorite characters 😡

Seems black lives are the only lives that matter.

Can't argue with disingenuous.

@Fosler These protests are nothing to do with BLM. Some people genuinely have cause to protest, I accept that, but when little Emily Jones is murdered in front of her family, on Mother's Day, and people don't protest, well, what can I say? Seems black lives are the only lives that matter.

What a ridiculous statement. Emily Jones’ death was tragic, but her killer was immediately caught and is now facing justice. There is no systematic issue to protest against. I’d also be cautious about using victims to make a political point. I haven’t heard any statement from Emily’s family, but Lee Rigby’s mother has made a public statement saying that she doesn’t want her son’s name to be used against the BLM campaign.

When black women are five times more likely to die in child birth, over 70% of ethnic minority worker say they have faced discrimination in the last five years, black people are 40 times for like to be stopped and searched and receive higher custodial sentences than white people, it’s hard to believe that black lives are the only live that matter.

I started reading the books at 16. I don't actually think they are that racist at all. By highlighting muggleborns vs pure bloods i think the books show prejudice in a way to be understood by the ages who would be reading them. It is true that she never mentions ethnicity unless it is someone who is black but unfortunately that was a symptom of the times, but we can't rely on the films for how we see the characters. Read the books and let your own imagination do the work. Even now i don't mentally see the character descriptions as the cast for the films while reading if i don't think that works

I do feel so sorry for JK over the supposed controversy over the race of Hermione. JK evidently didn't think Hermione had to be necessarily white, and I don't think she does either, but there was such a storm over white erasure and so on after casting. She tweeted that in response to all those people complaining on her supposed behalf about the casting, without doing a computerised search through everything she'd ever published to see if there was anything referring to Hermione's skin.

I think she originally visualised Hermione as white; Hermione is a white girl, from a happy, well-off background (skiing holidays in France and so on). I think she's supposed to be a character who wouldn't experience racism in the muggle world, so that children reading who also come from backgrounds that mean they wouldn't experience racism either, can have it properly bludgeoned into them that racial discrimination is awful and also absurd.

Her tweet was clumsily worded in the end but when you get on her back about revisionism, and quoting her books back to her, consider who was originally doing the searches through 7 volumes for any mention of Hermione's skin. They were doing it because they were that upset about a black actor playing Hermione and they were not people I'd want to associate myself with, personally. You won't see them at any BLM protests.

[quote Clymene]@cardibach - goodness no, whatever made you think that? My point was that the level of debate is akin to that of a gcse English class. While there is much to be admired in one where a teacher inspires passionate debate, one hopes that as an adult, the arguments become slightly more nuanced. This discussion is anything but. [/quote]
So you don’t really know what a GCSE English class is like then? Other than your memories from when you were there?
Explains a lot.
Try not to be so condescending when you have no knowledge base to justify it.

She fucking thought up an entire magical world over seven books which have sold over 500 million copies but it’s 2020 now and having a completely uncontroversial supporting character intended to indicate diversity is quite reasonably called Cho Chang so yeah sure let’s cancel her.