Family row scheduled for this afternoon - help me prepare myself

[Oakmaiden]

This is not the way I would prefer to deal with this, but unfortunately my husband scheduled a family row (aka "We will discuss this tomorrow") with my teenage daughter. I need help to work out what we hope to achieve and what is reasonable to expect. Please.

The background: I am trying to keep this as brief as possible. DD is 16 and is currently (was, before everything shut down) being assessed for Autism. She also suffers from sometimes very bad depression and very high levels of anxiety. She is very bright (was hoping for straight A's for GCSEs, but with all that is going on, who can tell...) but her passion has always been for performing - she normally spends around 20 hours a week on top of her school week dancing/acting/singing etc.

Lockdown obviously changed her life dramatically. As well as an abrupt end to her schooling and the cancellation of several performances she had been working hard toward, her "extra curricula" life changed. Her dance, drama and singing lessons all went on line, so she could have continued them as normal, but she finds the online format very difficult, and says that she no longer feel as though she is being taught and corrected, merely given activities to do. She has stopped singing and drama completely, and goes to maybe 3 or 4 dance classes a week. At most. The rest of the time - she plays on the computer or sleeps.

And this is the source of most of the conflict - she plays a game with people in the States, so goes to bed at about 4am and gets up early afternoon. Yesterday we didn't see her until 6pm. She hasn't been outside since the week before lockdown (she was isolating the week before as she had mumps) except occasionally in the garden. Her contribution to the household is to cook one meal a week and wash up once a week (these are her official "tasks") which I don't think is very much, but she thinks is hugely unreasonable. Yesterday it was her turn to cook, and she decided to make macaroni cheese (which my husband can't eat as cooked cheese makes him ill) and refused to heat up a jar of ready made sauce alongside it for her father so he could eat.

And EVERYTHING we say to her she has a comeback for.

I want her to live more "UK centric" and sociable hours, to become more involved in preparing for her future and to help out a bit more. To lead a more normal life. She says she can't see what difference it makes to us, and we should leave her to do what makes her happy. DH wants to confiscate her computer.

Am I being unreasonable to want to make changes (I am willing to compromise, and in honesty her happiness IS very important to me) or should we just leave her to get on with it.

[isofatso]

Mother on autistic 17yr old DD here, do not take the computer away. My DD is almost completely nocturnal at the moment and we have decided to let her get on with it.
With some provisos...
Daily chores (planned in advance, so Tuesday washing, Wednesday cook dinner etc) rather than weekly so she has to engage at some stage with family life each day,
Daily leave the house for exercise, she can join us if she likes or go for walk, run, cycle herself. Sometimes she goes at 6am before she sleeps, other times 5pm before dinner.
Join us for dinner and then TV or game after dinner.

My DD is not an enthusiastic cook either and gets easily overwhelmed by last minute changes or uncertainty. I help her decide what she's going to cook and we do it together rather than leaving her to it. If we'd agreed something not everyone liked I would probably do the extra bit like heat the jar of sauce up.
I want her involved and contributing to family life but I don't want her overwhelmed or causing tension for the rest of us.
When she has school work she'll need to do it, and if she starts grumping because she's too tired from the overnights then we have words. Otherwise I let her get on with stuff the way she wants to because this is tough for everyone.

[Canklesforankles]

Lots of good advice from autistic people or parents of autistic people. The special needs board might be a good place to get support.

My neurodiverse teens/ young adults are all awake when I go to bed. It sounds like the House of Commons. I try to make sure they are up by midday, that they eat and get outside.

They don’t sleep well in normal times never mind now.

If she was just about to be assessed then this pandemic has come at a difficult time for you all as you haven’t had time to adjust and accommodate her disability. It’s always hard but especially now.

[DonLewis]

Such a lot to untangle.
I think refusing to reheat a jar of sauce is completely unacceptable.
I think your dh is being overly harsh about the other stuff though.

At 16, lockdown is shit. She's lost everything. And her father is trying to force his will in her in respect of her post 16 choices. There's no quicker way to drive her away. They are her choices. It's her future. Guiding her and discussing those choices with her is one thing, but it doesn't sound like that's what your dh is actually doing.

The hours she keeps? I'd try to find a compromise rather than just impose your will. Again, it's the fastest way to drive a teenager away.

I think it sounds like she needs someone in her side. Or to feel like there's someone in her side.

[NewAccountForCorona]

" I just feel there is something not quite healthy about the hours she is keeping" of course it's not healthy, very little about this situation is healthy for teenagers. In your situation though, changing those hours won't improve things for her or anyone else.

Foods sounds like a bit issue, so maybe she would be better cooking the same meal every week (agreed by everyone), on the same day at the same time. Ask her if there are any other tasks she would be willing to do. She'll probably say no, though, so it's worth again thinking whether this is a battle worth having at the moment.

[Regularsizedrudy]

We are in a global pandemic, everyone’s routine has gone to shit. I think you are expecting an awful lot from a 16 year old. Cut her some slack. I was much worse at 16 and there wasn’t a global health crisis.

[2pinkginsplease]

And my 18 yr old thinks I’m strict!

Lockdown has messed with all our routines, we don’t implement a bed time, the only bedtime rule we state is that when dh and I go to bed normally midnight then they have to come off their microphones and speakers. I couldn’t care less if they stay up all night as long as they are pleasant and we eat dinner all together .

The only other rule is they tidy up after themselves, wash the dishes they have used, and generally keep the place tidy, both are struggling with not seeing friends.

[okiedokieme]

She sounds so like my dd! The good news is that it gets better. The bad news is that it takes time. The online gaming thing really annoyed me too, we had rules in place that she must be up and dressed by midday. Obviously I never dealt with lockdown but the anxiety, depression etc sounds family along with music etc.

We had chores that increased and meals had to be suitable for all (she had a habit of making food too spicy, and I like it quite hot!) she has gardening tasks too as an idea for you.

It's not easy but you need to have ground rules and be understanding at the same time. On a positive note it got better once she worked, and is predicated 1st at university. Be positive!

[Healthyandhappy]

She fancies a meal and she wants to cook it what's up with that. Your husband can make himself a sandwich. Then again in my house we all eat differently tonight I'm having curry kid 1 pasta and cheese kids 2 corned beef sandwich (reception child so gets a free meal) the aspect of her cooking is to learn life skills for when she moves out. Push her to much and she will resent you for it. Download some sleep meditation and agree 11pm bedtime make plans for a day out to local beauty park tomorrow

[TwoBlueFish]

I have a DS who is the same age as your daughter. He gets up around 2pm, goes on his computer a lot but has to be off by midnight, he comes down to make himself lunch, joins us at the table for dinner and a chat then retreats back to his room. He keeps his room tidy but does little else. He worked really hard at school and will hopefully get good grades in his GCSE’s, his whole social life is now online. His job (free paper delivery), volunteering and other activities are all gone.

Your daughter has all this to deal with plus possible autism and mental health issues. I’d cut her some slack, put some loose rules in place, must shower, must join you for dinner, must do her chores, if she cooks it must be something everyone can eat. Don’t take away her computer, come to a compromise on an appropriate bed time and wake up time.

[MadamHattie]

I spoke recently with my sons doctor (adhd and asd) a she said that she is finding this sleep pattern alot with kids this age. She basically said alot of it is to do with them missing their day to day activities so sleep through what they would be doing and awake when they know they would be at home anyway. Could that be the case here? He's also in gcse year so around the same age

[Canklesforankles]

My DD has asked for a plan for meals and chores. She said “I don’t know what is expected of me. I put my plate in the dishwasher.”

She is really smart and can mask pretty well. I was shocked to hear she really didn’t have a clue what I expected. If you want DD to cook then have it written on the fridge (who’s cooking and what).

I’ve started allocating an area (kitchen, hall stairs and landing etc) then setting cooker timer for 25 minutes and everyone has to clean their area for that time. I give everyone own spray bottle and cloth. Soon organisational skills needed, clear task and time limit. Less whining because everyone is busy at same time.

Good luck. It’s really hard.

[Juliet2014]

* Yesterday it was her turn to cook, and she decided to make macaroni cheese (which my husband can't eat as cooked cheese makes him ill) and refused to heat up a jar of ready made sauce alongside it for her father so he could eat.*

All said, this is not the behaviour of a pleasant person.

[Apple1029]

Agree with taking away the router when you go to bed. Unacceptable to be up till 4am. That's really just creating a problem within itself.
Also why is her chores so less. That is just laziness. She needs to be doing much more.
And the stubbornness about her dads meal is just selfish.
I think you definitely need to back dh up.
Obviously as you suspect she has SN, your approach needs to be a bit different but dont let the laziness, selfishness and bad behavior slide just because.

[Canklesforankles]

So no organisational skills..

[HalloumiSalad]

I haven't rtft but I really feel for your daughter. She has been stripped of her identity and everything that motivates her. No wonder she's ended up where she is.
However becoming nocturnal, getting little daylight and exercise and being distanced from all real life relationships is a fast track to bad health physical and mental.
I wouldn't be putting much effort into disciplining her but I would absolutely be trying to get her on side to recognising the trajectory she's on, the impact on her and her family and helping her find ways to change direction asap.
Good luck. 😔

[Jakey056]

I think there are a few issues at play.

• How you view conflict - preparing for 'family row scheduled'
• Your daughter and her routine
• Your expectations of her contribution.

I am a parent, two kids and I am pretty relaxed about most things, however I would take a dim view of how your daughter is behaving. I think the generation we are currently raising is the most selfish and entitled yet. And it's us, parents who are allowing it. I am not having a go at you but it is almost unfashionable to ask kids to pull their weight, contribute and take part in society, have manners, compromise, see things from other perspectives.

Your daughter is 16. I think you are giving her a lot of leeway on the basis of a suspected diagnosis for autism, you mention her depression and anxiety and high performance. You cannot allow poor behaviour because of where she is at with her mood or possible diagnosis.

She needs to cook a few times a week, plan a recipe, take feedback and do it. Tasks during the day: dishwasher empty, help in the house, clean. Normal stuff like she will have to do when she moves out in two years.
Going to bed like she does - no. Go to bed early so you can have an adult evening together . No nightime gaming. Up early and go outside, exercise, walk - just not on a screen.

Its a pity that her exams and dance/ performing stuff ended but she has to learn that this is life, they has to learn to roll with the punches and get on with it. At 16 you should not be preparing for a conflict laden session. You should be in the stage of reasonable discussion. You are giving way too much leeway and not being assertive. I see why this has happened but you all have to work collectively to change it.

[Dontfuckingsaycheese]

Mother of 17 year old Ds with ASC here. Ignore the lay down the lawers on here. They obviously know nothing about parenting a child with autism.

Ignore the twats criticising your parenting. Nobody parents harder than a parent of a child with autism.

Men often (not being sexist - it is acknowledged) struggle with SEN diagnosis. You won't help her by ignoring her needs. You will make it far far worse.

It sounds like she was an incredibly motivated, active, hard worker until this all happened. Her whole world has fallen apart. Let her do what she can do to get herself through. She is socialising. Different hours to you. Meh. What does that matter?? Who does want to get up at the crack of dawn for nothing??? I know I don't. I sometimes find myself still awake at 4am as I'm doing what I am doing to get me through. Watching Offspring on Netflix!!

You and your husband need to be on the same page. But please don't go over to his!! That would make things so much worse for your daughter, and you.

[ProtectAll]

My opinion as the mother of an extremely bright DD who is on the spectrum. Nocturnal behaviour to this extent is not ideal however a forced change won't work and could be detrimental to her mental health. Can she only play her online game with the US? Could you talk about gradually changing the hours she keeps. joining the family on days when she feels able, fresh air is important as far as I am concerned and daylight.

My DD is now post school and I am not sure how she would have coped if this had happened when she was in Yr11, I remember it been a very stressful time for us all and her spending a lot of time in her room and not wanting to join in with family events. She couldn't even keep her room tidy/clean let alone help with chores.

No having had to drop out of uni for a while due to a MH crisis she has been working in the hospitality industry. Whilst she had been stabilised through medication and counselling we knew that working nights and sleeping through the day was not good for her wellbeing or helping her recovery, however she couldn't see it. It is only through lockdown and reverting to sleeping at night that she now see the benefits.

[Island35]

Hi OP

I have read a couple of your posts, I am a music teacher. if you daughter wants to study music at A level it is highly academic. Music is a misunderstood subject? We are providing a link from GCSE to A'level, if you want any help please send me a message and I can provide some info.

Regarding autism the arts were/are her thing but your daughter sees it as an activity she takes part in outside of the house receiving one-one feedback. Sadly Lockdown has had a massive impact on the arts in general. Could you contact any of her teachers or tutors? If you explained the seriousness of the situation could they hold a one-to-one session in the garden? Could she choreograph something with one of her dance friends and submit for feedback? Take part in online conditioning classes? There is the here and now of the situation but not taking an active role will make picking it all up again feel harder.

Sorry I am in a rush and will read all posts properly later.

[Happymum12345]

Lockdown has sent even the most cheerful, happy go lucky people a bit crazy. I know some people cope well, but not everyone. I would suggest being firm but fair. Don’t take away her computer. I have a 16 year old, up at odd hours, does nothing to help around the house etc. This will pass.

[differentnameforthis]

@BreathlessCommotion

I really think you should be seeking and taking advice from others with ASD children. It is a very different way of parenting.

This and BreathlessCommotion's post before it.

One thing I haven't seen addressed (apologies if I have missed it) is the sleep issue. How was her sleep pre-lockdown?

Many people (especially children) with ASD find sleep a struggle. My own dd (11) will not go to sleep until the early hours without melatonin, regardless of whatever routine I try to implement. Could this be a case for your dd? It may be that the psychical exertion of all her activities help her sleep, and without that, sleep is an issue.

And of course now, sleeping so late in the day will mean that she isn't tired at the "usual" time, couple that with lack of physical stimulus, and it results in staying up until all hours talking to friends over a game.

I also agree regarding cooking, could it be the sauce your dh wanted is a sensory trigger for her? My dd cannot sit at the table and eat with us due to food/eating related issues.

[1forsorrow]

Pick your battles. Not making a meal that everyone can eat isn't kind, isn't helpful. Don't let her have free choice on what she makes, she has to run it past you and you approve what is being cooked. Perfectly reasonable.

I wouldn't take the computer, I wouldn't worry about what time she plays games unless she is disturbing other people in the house. In their teens lots of kids go nocturnal if they can, in two years time if she is at uni she will probably do the same unless she has early lectures.

We are all struggling to a certain extent with lockdown, I think it is very hard on teenagers, she didn't get to do her exams, her hobbies have all stopped, she has a dad who doesn't approve of her choices (she probably knows even if he hasn't said) and she enjoys playing on her computer. Who is that hurting?

I've got 4 adult children, generally they had their moments as teenagers but they are all well balanced adults with good lives. I would never have set a bed time for a 16 year old, they knew if they had to get up and I expected them to manage it and they did. Mine all had alot going on outside home at that age, jobs, hobbies etc and they didn't do much to help at home, it hasn't had any terrible outcomes and I was happy they were saving for uni/enjoying hobbies.

[Oakmaiden]

All said, this is not the behaviour of a pleasant person.

If you asked me I would say she is sweet, generous and kind. But then, sometimes (recently?) she isn't.

[differentnameforthis]

Juliet2014 All said, this is not the behaviour of a pleasant person

Neither is forcing a person with known food issues to cook a particular meal for you. Comments like this show that you have no idea about autistic people, let alone teenage girls with food issues.