Family row scheduled for this afternoon - help me prepare myself

[Oakmaiden]

This is not the way I would prefer to deal with this, but unfortunately my husband scheduled a family row (aka "We will discuss this tomorrow") with my teenage daughter. I need help to work out what we hope to achieve and what is reasonable to expect. Please.

The background: I am trying to keep this as brief as possible. DD is 16 and is currently (was, before everything shut down) being assessed for Autism. She also suffers from sometimes very bad depression and very high levels of anxiety. She is very bright (was hoping for straight A's for GCSEs, but with all that is going on, who can tell...) but her passion has always been for performing - she normally spends around 20 hours a week on top of her school week dancing/acting/singing etc.

Lockdown obviously changed her life dramatically. As well as an abrupt end to her schooling and the cancellation of several performances she had been working hard toward, her "extra curricula" life changed. Her dance, drama and singing lessons all went on line, so she could have continued them as normal, but she finds the online format very difficult, and says that she no longer feel as though she is being taught and corrected, merely given activities to do. She has stopped singing and drama completely, and goes to maybe 3 or 4 dance classes a week. At most. The rest of the time - she plays on the computer or sleeps.

And this is the source of most of the conflict - she plays a game with people in the States, so goes to bed at about 4am and gets up early afternoon. Yesterday we didn't see her until 6pm. She hasn't been outside since the week before lockdown (she was isolating the week before as she had mumps) except occasionally in the garden. Her contribution to the household is to cook one meal a week and wash up once a week (these are her official "tasks") which I don't think is very much, but she thinks is hugely unreasonable. Yesterday it was her turn to cook, and she decided to make macaroni cheese (which my husband can't eat as cooked cheese makes him ill) and refused to heat up a jar of ready made sauce alongside it for her father so he could eat.

And EVERYTHING we say to her she has a comeback for.

I want her to live more "UK centric" and sociable hours, to become more involved in preparing for her future and to help out a bit more. To lead a more normal life. She says she can't see what difference it makes to us, and we should leave her to do what makes her happy. DH wants to confiscate her computer.

Am I being unreasonable to want to make changes (I am willing to compromise, and in honesty her happiness IS very important to me) or should we just leave her to get on with it.

[Pebblexox]

As a child who potentially has asd, you cannot approach it in the 'normal' way parents would.
Having a big argument isn't going to help anything. Your child feels she lost everything that makes her her, she needs support not telling off.
Yes she should have made something for your husband, so a conversation needs to be had. But she's 16, staying up late on the computer is what the majority of 16 years old I know are doing. Their lives have been flipped upside down, we have to give them a little leeway.

[HeronLanyon]

Your title made me laugh.
Your content made me have quite strong views until i realised I have no idea how her asd and anxiety will be affecting her and your ability to parent her supportively.
All I will say is good luck ! To all three of you.

[Murinae]

Mine are similar and one has Asperger traits. We only insist on them cooking one meal a week each that everyone will eat and washing up/clearing the kitchen after meals the other days. We let them do what they want each morning till about 2 pm and then they have to helping the garden (we have a huge garden)/come for a walk/ help with the shopping/ empty the dishwasher till meal time at 6-7pm after that they are free to do what they want until 2 pm again the next day. My husband was all they should be doing something like yours is but when you ask him what they should be doing he doesn’t know! He also doesn’t want to supervise them the whole day either so this way seems to work better for everyone.

[Dontfuckingsaycheese]

Ps. I got up at 6 this morning as the washing machine woke the dog up. My son was just going to bed. He called me a psychopath for being up at that time! Time is only a social construct. He has struggled with sleep issues for 17 years. It was a problem as he needed to be up and out for college. We only managed to solve it with melatonin from USA. He finally had a decent sleeping pattern. Then fucking lockdown happened. So he doesn't need to be up and out. He gets up and goes to bed when he needs to. I see him for tea. Or as he calls it. Breakfast. I give him the odd driving lesson. We chat. Sometimes he will tolerate me giving him a hug and telling him I love him. Not a single argument here throughout the whole of lockdown. We're lucky. We don't have a man in the house telling us we're doing it all wrong. Fuck that

[AmaryllisNightAndDay]

Can you focus on one thing at a time and not try to fix everythying at once? Maybe sort out the cooking issue first.

Having a comeback is normal for teenagers, and insisting on having the last word is very common with autism. I picked up a strategy for managing this: let them have the last word but you have the "lasting word". Decide what you have to say in a short clear message (maybe planned in advance, or maybe at the end of a discussion); say what you have to say; let them react; you say the same thing over again; and then you stop. Doesnt matter if they have another comeback or how much they argue back, you don't react. And that is their takeaway. For example "when it is your turn to cook I want you to cook food we can all eat". I have found the message sinks in if I say it twice and stop, and DS acts on it later even if he carries on arguing for dear life.

The hours issue is more complex and I'd take a look at joint problem-solving strategies before weighing in. If her social life is in America now then it is an important part of her life and maybe meeting a social need and also a healthy need for independence that can't be met otherwise in lockdown. So you may need to help her balance those needs with the need for physical activity and for an offline life with her family. Not just see her nighttime activity as purely a bad thing that needs to be constrained.

Good luck!

[OrchidJewel]

I've no advice as mine are much younger, feel.so sorry for teens and their parents. Any teens I know are doing their own hours.

Just want to say I admire her passion for music and dance. That is wonderful, many teens get stuck in what their future looks like. I hope for her sake your DH accepts that and best of luck with your chat

[1forsorrow]

She needs to cook a few times a week, plan a recipe, take feedback and do it. Tasks during the day: dishwasher empty, help in the house, clean. Normal stuff like she will have to do when she moves out in two years. With 5 people in the house that seems an unfair load on one person, is anyone else doing anything?

[DishingOutDone]

So 5 pages of advice, with a big split between people who either can't or won't take on board that OP's DD is not NT. Surely after various posters have explained this in more detail, those who didn't realise would say Ah I see, in that case my advice is not informed maybe go on the SN boards ...?

Although I am wondering how much the OP understands about it herself:

My DD is in a similar position at 17 and I couldn't imagine dealing with her issues in the way you propose OP I'm a bit shocked to be honest. Do you not have any input from CAMHS? My DD is under a psychiatrist and a local paediatrician, we also get specialist input from a local charity - there is so much you don't seem to understand. Have you been on any parenting courses for SN young people?

And as for you allowing a "family row" to be scheduled, WTAF? Put this on the SN boards and get proper relevant advice.

[DishingOutDone]

Oops sorry 6 pages now. With one short response from the OP that didn't address the points made.

[1forsorrow]

I got up at 6 this morning as the washing machine woke the dog up. My son was just going to bed. He called me a psychopath for being up at that time!

[monkeymonkey2010]

HELPING AT HOME the reason she does so little is because she generally has an insane schedule

I'm actually shocked that, as her parents, neither of you have realised that it's more important that she learns how to wipe her own arse and take responsibility for herself and the house she lives in!
I'm even more shocked that you don't even 'know' that it's unhealthy for her to be up until 4am - even when you can CLEARLY see how it results in her being lazy,selfish and inconsiderate!

YOU are the adults here! Why aren't you standing in your authority?
Why are you allowing a 16 year old, spoilt little madam to call the shots and laugh right in your face?
YOU are bringing her up to be a rude and selfish person.

STOP using her non-existent diagnoses of autism as an excuse to justify your own lack of firm parenting.
You can be autistic and still NOT have the attitude your daughter has.

I get that she enjoys her dance and drama - but realistically what are her chances of employment?
She NEEDS basic academic skills....so she can at least manage her own finances and admin as an adult if nothing else!

She spends all this time on her 'hobbies' but neglects her share of housework.....i wouldn't accept the "i've been working hard all day" excuse from a man to avoid doing housework - yet this is exactly what you're teaching your dd.

How about you teach her the VALUE of things? That privileges like her hobbies and computer etc are NOT a basic right?
She is PRIVILEGED to have these - and the very least she can do is appreciate what she's being given.....cos her attitude stinks.

[AnnaBanana333]

Please don't take her computer away.

She sounds just like me at her age, and that social contact online was a lifeline. 15 years later I'm still naturally nocturnal, and if I didn't have to be at work by nine I would be sleeping from 5am - 2pm. I'm most alert at night and most productive in the early hours of the morning. It's just how I'm wired, but I still learned the discipline to keep 'normal' hours in order to function at a 9-5 job.

Don't punish her for having friends in another time zone or for sleeping late. It isn't a moral failing, as much as people like to insinuate that early risers are somehow better people.

[1forsorrow]

So 5 pages of advice, with a big split between people who either can't or won't take on board that OP's DD is not NT. I'm not sure any of them at NT at that age, they seem to be aliens for a few years and then turn into reasonable human beings, which can be a shock in its own way.

[Oakmaiden]

I think there are a few issues at play.
How you view conflict - preparing for 'family row scheduled'

I am rubbish at conflict. It scares me and I get upset, even quite mild disagreements. And I am afraid of upsetting dd a lot of the time, as her mood has been SO low and I am scared of what she will do. And she gets upset so easily, too.

I suffer from mh issues too.

All in all it makes me very far from a perfect parent as far as discipline is concerned.

[isofatso]

Posters like monkeymonkey clearly do not have a clue and you will be doing your daughter a huge disservice to pay attention to their 'advice'

[ATomeOfOnesOwn]

There's an undercurrent of struggling for control in your post and I can't tell if it's coming from you or your DH.It sounds as though your DH is seeing this as an opportunity to try to push your DD towards an agenda and career of his choosing. There's little kindness or consideration for how your DD will be struggling with her routine being completely turned upside down.
A person with asd, autism or anxiety usually needs a routine. Your DD has created a new one and now you want to take it away from her too. I can't quite believe you'd even consider confiscating her computer. It's the only thing stopping her being isolated.
I'd also recommend reading 'Get out of my life but first take me and Alex into town'. Your DD is deliberately creating flashpoints but you and your DH don't need to react to them negatively.

[StatementKnickers]

If she hasn't been diagnosed then I wouldn't make any "special needs" type allowances. She clearly functions perfectly well when she has things set up the way the she likes them!

I'd ban internet from 11 pm - 7 am (let the others be the ones staying up all night for a change, or surely she can find someone in Europe who plays this game?) and make daytime use dependent on doing a lot more around the house than she currently does. Your DH is right.

[Pebblexox]

Also I'd seriously look at the possibility that your dd may be depressed. Big changes can really affect moods, especially that of a non NT person.

[AndNoneForGretchenWieners]

I think that, by 16, you have to shift your expectations - you are parenting a young adult who can cope with more autonomy and independence. If you constantly nag or moan about her online habit, she is more likely to cling to it in defiance, and so removing the computer is a sure fire way to increase the antagonism between you. Personally I would approach it as you feel that her cooking a meal that her dad couldn't eat was quite unthinking (rather than accuse her of deliberate malice), and remind her that you often cook separate things for her as you respect her food limitations, so it would have been kind for her to reciprocate with her dad - that is still allowing her the option of cooking the cheesy pasta, in the same manner as you cooking for all your family, and then heating up the sauce for dad as you would cook something just for her. It will give her an 'out' without losing face if she hears you not being accusatory but gently reminding her.

The computer issue, well by 16 my DS didn't have a bed time and knew that if he was up all night watching telly or playing on his xbox, he would be tired the next day. So if you want her to go out with you or do something, tell her you will be waking her regardless of what time she went to bed, because that is what family life is about. That was she will see the consequences of a late night for herself without feeling like you are being restrictive and treating her like a younger child.

It is a kind and conflict free way to reinforce that grown up life can really suck and be tedious, without any punishments that will inflame the situation. (I was very strict with DS as a youngster but found it easier when he was a teen, he is now 20 and generally a pleasure to share a house with, but he has also become nocturnal since being furloughed).

[Juliet2014]

@differentnameforthis

* Neither is forcing a person with known food issues to cook a particular meal for you.*

Where was she being forced to cook a particular meal?

She had free reign to choose and she chose something a member of her family medically could not eat!

[Ninkanink]

@DishingOutDone yes...sadly I don’t hold out much hope for a good outcome, given that OP seems disinclined to actually engage with those who have advised based on SN/ASD.

(OP if you are actually reading and in the process of digesting then apologies.)

This should not have been posted in AIBU.

[Floatyboat]

Why can't he eat cooked cheese.

[isofatso]

Cross post with you OP. You do not have to discipline her, you need to support, listen, and encourage your DD to learn life skills and be a happy and healthy part of your family

[NewAccountForCorona]

Please ignore monkeymonkey2010.

Unless you want to spend the next three months with an increasingly anxious, angry, depressed teen and an utterly miserable family life.

[differentnameforthis]

@1forsorrow Pick your battles. Not making a meal that everyone can eat isn't kind, isn't helpful. Don't let her have free choice on what she makes, she has to run it past you and you approve what is being cooked

Perfectly unreasonable ... do you have any idea how food averse autistic people (particularly girls) can be? Forcing the issue of making food for everyone would end in a meltdown of huge proportions for my dd and is simply not something that will ever be forced in my house.