Family row scheduled for this afternoon - help me prepare myself

[Oakmaiden]

This is not the way I would prefer to deal with this, but unfortunately my husband scheduled a family row (aka "We will discuss this tomorrow") with my teenage daughter. I need help to work out what we hope to achieve and what is reasonable to expect. Please.

The background: I am trying to keep this as brief as possible. DD is 16 and is currently (was, before everything shut down) being assessed for Autism. She also suffers from sometimes very bad depression and very high levels of anxiety. She is very bright (was hoping for straight A's for GCSEs, but with all that is going on, who can tell...) but her passion has always been for performing - she normally spends around 20 hours a week on top of her school week dancing/acting/singing etc.

Lockdown obviously changed her life dramatically. As well as an abrupt end to her schooling and the cancellation of several performances she had been working hard toward, her "extra curricula" life changed. Her dance, drama and singing lessons all went on line, so she could have continued them as normal, but she finds the online format very difficult, and says that she no longer feel as though she is being taught and corrected, merely given activities to do. She has stopped singing and drama completely, and goes to maybe 3 or 4 dance classes a week. At most. The rest of the time - she plays on the computer or sleeps.

And this is the source of most of the conflict - she plays a game with people in the States, so goes to bed at about 4am and gets up early afternoon. Yesterday we didn't see her until 6pm. She hasn't been outside since the week before lockdown (she was isolating the week before as she had mumps) except occasionally in the garden. Her contribution to the household is to cook one meal a week and wash up once a week (these are her official "tasks") which I don't think is very much, but she thinks is hugely unreasonable. Yesterday it was her turn to cook, and she decided to make macaroni cheese (which my husband can't eat as cooked cheese makes him ill) and refused to heat up a jar of ready made sauce alongside it for her father so he could eat.

And EVERYTHING we say to her she has a comeback for.

I want her to live more "UK centric" and sociable hours, to become more involved in preparing for her future and to help out a bit more. To lead a more normal life. She says she can't see what difference it makes to us, and we should leave her to do what makes her happy. DH wants to confiscate her computer.

Am I being unreasonable to want to make changes (I am willing to compromise, and in honesty her happiness IS very important to me) or should we just leave her to get on with it.

[Nousernameforme]

My DD18 also has asd. Don't remove her only form of connection to the outside world please.
Talk about how changing her routine to a less nocturnal one would be better for her physical and mental health. It might take a while for the idea to get through but it will eventually DD now will go to sleep at a reasonable time and doesn't get up later than 9 most days now she will often go sleep earlier if she is tired and can listen to her body and self regulate now.

Reading between the lines is the problem here your DH doesn't like her sleeping in all day? If so he has to suck it up. Sorry but his way will lead to poor mental health and much stress

[Ninkanink]

Yes, boundaries are very important. And actually I think she should be doing a lot more to help in the household - your aim is to raise a self-sufficient, well-rounded and capable adult, right? She’s almost there now, so she needs to be expected to do more. And the routine of doing more daily will likely help her in other ways too. It’s the approach and the strategies you employ to that end that are important - they need to be tailored to be useful to her particular set of traits and her individual circumstances.

As I said, I think you should get this moved to where you will get advice from people who are likely to be much better placed to offer it.

[Silentplikebath]

You need to speak to your DH before having a family ‘row’. Your DD has a plan for her future and it isn’t right for her father to insist that only academic subjects count. She is entitled to choose whatever career she wants. He should be encouraging her and supporting her to do well, especially if she has SEN. It’s a really important part of being a good parent.

Removing her computer isn’t the answer to dealing with why she made a meal that would make her father ill. Explaining that you want the best for her and as a family you all need to be kind to each other might get better results.

Set the wifi to go off at midnight or 1am without any discussion. I wouldn’t even tell her about it because you and DH pay for the bills.

[OneNewName]

I think that's a heavy handed approach.

[Rhubardandcustard]

I think all teens due to sit exams are having a tough time with this, my dd included.

We made a list together at start of lockdown of all she could do until September and in reality that was a waste of time.

I think they have needed time to process, readjust and just come to terms of how their lives have changed so much this year from what they had planned. I think as adults we can to a certain extent deal with this better but even I have struggled with this situation.

There is however no need for rudeness, meals should be eaten together and everyone pull their weight in jobs around the house. Up until early hours playing games is just not acceptable in this house.

By all means sit down and discuss - it doesn’t need to be a row/argument and agree on some compromises together.

[BlankTimes]

And she needs to get a grip OP, for goodness' sake, do not listen to parents giving advice on how to treat an NT teen, it does NOT work for parenting a teen with ASD and will make the situation so much worse.

Girls and women with ASD can present very differently to the 'standard' male presentation of autism that people are more familiar with, so try not to have any pre-conceived ideas about it.

Anxiety is a driver for autism, the more anxious she is, the more her autistic traits will become evident to you as she struggles to cope with all the changes. Reduce her anxiety by finding out what triggers it - not a 5 minute job - and you have a good chance of making her feel happier.

Does she have any sensory needs?www.falkirk.gov.uk/services/social-care/disabilities/docs/young-people/Making%20Sense%20of%20Sensory%20Behaviour.pdf?

This is a quick overview of the autistic spectrum which may help yopu understand how she may see things differently from an NT teen. So many people make the mistake of assuming that academic intelligence means autism is pretty insignificant for that person. It's not the case.
neuroclastic.com/2019/05/04/its-a-spectrum-doesnt-mean-what-you-think/

Your understanding of her condition won't happen overnight and some things you ask her, she won't be able to explain in the same way her peers would.

Also, it's very common for kids with AN to have an emotional age about two thirds of their chronological age. If you think she's being immature in her understanding and in her decisions, this could explain why.

Please try to have a calm discussion today, but don't use any sanctions you'd impose on an NT teen.

[newbathroomforme]

When my DS's were little they loved the story of the north wind and the sun. Do you know it? Who could get a man on horseback to remove his coat. The wind blew and blew and blew it got crosser and crosser and all the mandid was do his coat up tighter. The sun came out bathed him in warmth the birds sang the flowers came out the man took his coat off. For me parenting is like that. Don't create a row it wont help. Talk to her compromise, meet her 1/2 way.
My DS's are now adults, DS2 loved gaming in his gap year he would stay up till 4am gaming it drove me nuts, he said he was lonely, I let him get on with it but secretly despaired now at 22 he never games he has a nice girlfriend he's not lonely and he grew out of it on his own.

[Rhubardandcustard]

Oh and forgot to add the only thing I have insisted she does every day is join me on an hours dog walk. She grumbled to begin with but she looks forward to going now. At the start of each walk I often have a non communicative grumpy teenager but by the time we are half way through the walk she gradually begins talking and we’ve had many heart to heart chats.

[ittakes2]

If you have not given her a warning that poor attitude will result in her computer being confiscated - than don’t confiscate the computer. Use the meeting to clearly outline what is expected of her and tell her she is being given a warning that if she misbehaves the computer will be taken away - and stick to it.

[Karenista]

She’s had her structure and routine whisked from under her feet. I imagine the current situation and environment feels unsafe to her. It’s no wonder she’s clinging onto things like gaming - this is probably to do with normality and socialisation.
I suggest you draw up a schedule for her, consulting her on what she feels is fair.

[WoollyMammouth]

If she is autistic then you need to approach this differently. Have you done any reading around ASD? Don’t go in having a ‘row’ you need to have a discussion.

Autism and anxiety often go together, she’s had her world and routine turned upside down. Instead of taking her computer away which you really shouldn’t be doing you need to come up with solutions together and give her alternatives. Does she work well with a timetable or routines written down? My autistic child thrives on routine, you can download visual timetables for example. Have a look on the special needs board.

[Oakmaiden]

Food is a huge issue - there are very few meals she will actually eat, so we often have to cook separately for her anyway. We also stock meals for her in the freezer for her to heat up when she comes in from dance, etc as she is often not around at meal times.

How do I feel about it all? I just feel there is something not quite healthy about the hours she is keeping, but I don't know if that is just my unconscious prejudices of whether it is actually unhealthy.

[3LittleMonkeyz]

@newbathroomforme

Thanks I absolutely love that! I am going to try to be the sun more than the wind. I think I've got caught in wind mode and my home has become a battleground but I am trying to find a more positive way. This is the perfect story to keep in mind! Thank you

[Redwinestillfine]

Why doesn't she have a set bedtime and rules that say no online activities after dinner?

[AlternativePerspective]

I wouldn’t remove the computer but after yesterday I can understand why your DH wants to.

But I wouldn’t stand for not getting up until 6 PM either. Staying up late is one thing, not getting up until late is another.

I wake mine at around eleven even if he’s been up half the night. He’s expected to be present for mealtimes and to do his bit, but other than that I leave him to get on with it. But much of that depends on his attitude.

A couple of weeks ago I told him I needed him to bring down any rubbish because it was bin day the next day. He stalled and stalled and stalled so I gave him an ultimatum. Either he bring down the rubbish that night or I would wake him at 7 the next morning to do it. And I set my alarm. Guess what.....

It’s a case of pick your battles really. TBH if she has MH issues it would concern me how much time she is spending online, as there is a link between time spent online and MH, so I’d want to know what she is doing online and with who.

Equally she is a member of this household, and if she expects to be given leeway with regards to her behaviour then she needs to realise that that cuts both ways and that it’s not all about her.

[newbathroomforme]

@3LittleMonkeyz I'd like to say I always got it right but of course I didn't but its a good ethos to try and live by.

[AlternativePerspective]

Why doesn't she have a set bedtime and rules that say no online activities after dinner? erm, she’s sixteen. Good luck with giving a sixteen year old a set bedtime.

Absolutely the WiFi can be cut from a certain time, but there’s no way you can enforce a set bedtime on a sixteen year old.

[3LittleMonkeyz]

Do you or DH supervise her computer time @Oakmaiden

I would want to know who these Americans she's speaking to at 4am are. Her academic work might be at age level and she may appear to be at age level, but just because these are "16" doesn't meant emotionally she is not still 10/11/12.

That's the thing with children who are not NT is that they often have parts of themselves which are not at their expected age of understanding.

[ludothedog]

Do not remove her computer!!!!! Why on earth would you do that? Why do you need to have a row? Why are you treating your 16 year old like a child?

Why go down the authoritarian route? Just speak to her about dinner and the rest, there is a global pandemic going on, what else is she supposed to do?

Your job right now is to survive this crisis with your DD's mental health and your relationship still in tact. Remember, she is a person separate from you who enjoys doing different things from you and her way of surviving lick down is different from you. A bit of acceptance will go a long way.

[MummytoCSJH]

So many parents of NT children here commenting when they have no idea. You can't treat a child with a condition like asd the same as a NT child, you just can't.

The whole world is upside down at the moment. Think of the number of threads you've seen of adults on here not coping with lockdown - this is a child and a child who already struggles mental health wise. She has no idea what the next few months hold for her, there is no harm in her staying up late or sleeping more for a few weeks. If she isn't going to the majority of her classes anymore, her gaming is likely to be one of her only links to friends she feels safe with. It would be cruel to take that away. Nothing to do with 'concentrating minds', trust me when I say my child would love to not have his mind on overdrive 24/7. Normal punishments will not work for children who see the world differently.

Ask if she could cook once more a week or help with washing up/other chores more often if you are so inclined but that is a separate issue.

[hiredandsqueak]

I have dd aged 17 with ASD and anxiety. I agree that her world has been knocked for six and for dd the ASD and anxiety have compounded the issues. I'm fortunate in so far as she is able to attend her specialist school twice a week and we have support from CAMHS.
For dd her anxiety was worse when she was living nocturnally, she needs interaction face to face to help her feel secure and grounded I think. We compromise, she has to get up for school two days a week so naturally sleeps earlier on the days around school both before and after school days and on the other days I wake her at midday if she isn't up before which means she is more tired so sleeps earlier on other days as well. I don't police when she goes to bed but getting up at midday is non negotiable so she tends to settle earlier herself.
As for chores, dd doesn't have set chores but is expected to help out when asked which works for us. I think considering she is at home full time it's reasonable to adjust the expectations now so she should wash up more and maybe take on another task.
As for cooking I would make a rule that whoever cooks has to cater for everybody so they can choose a meal everyone eats or they can choose to cater for everyone individually but not providing a meal for a family member isn't an option. Any failure to provide a meal results in them taking on the cooking responsibility of the person left out for that week as a consequence.

[MummytoCSJH]

She's 16 @3littlemonkeyz why are you so obsessed with her being groomed or something? Maybe she's just being a teenager? Bizarre

[thebear1]

Taking a PC off a teenager with Autism is not going to make home life any better in fact it will probably make it worse. Her late night games sound like her social interaction but you could work with her to reduce the time she is on. I also don't think you are unreasonable to ask for a greater contribution to the household in terms of chores.

[SeaToSki]

I would sit the whole family down (boys as well) and have a talk about the balance of housework, family time, fun time and school work/work across the whole family.

Have everyone write down what they have to do each week and then what they want to do
Brain storm all the housework jobs that need to be done each week

This helps everyone see In black and white how much has to be done and who has the most amount of free time to do it. I think it is going to become glaringly obvious that DD should be doing a lot more than she is.

At this point, she will probably start to get steamed up and grouchy as she will assume she is going to get dumped with all the housework, so take the wind out of her sails before this happens by saying clearly DD cant just do all the housework as she is only 16 and also everyone need to help in running the household.

Then ASK the dc what jobs they would like to help out with because they like them, which they least prefer to do and if there are any they would like to learn how to do.

Then have a quick look down the list and strategically ‘volunteer’ to do the jobs yourself that no-one wants to do. Have DH do the same

Then help the DC set their own plan of how they are going to split the rest of the jobs, and when they are going to do them. You will need them to set themselves their own deadlines (dinner is at 6pm) If you dont clear up after breakfast then you have to do lunch too.

Write up the plan and stick it on the fridge and commit to having a review meeting the following week to discuss how it is going and if any changes need to be made (a dc finds it takes much longer to do the hoovering than they thought and it sets off their allergies etc)

Once you have the household stuff sorted, then start to work on the gaming time. If she has to help with the housework then it might adjust itself a little naturally anyway.

Oh and also make it clear that when its holiday time, or someone starts taking a class/new job.... houshold jobs would need to be rebalanced again to account for it 😁

[JustSew]

All these people laying the law down removing computers etc. These are tactics for toddlers. She is 16 not 6. You can't enforce compliant behaviour in an adolescent with ASD.

I think there are two issues here. Her mental and physical health and her attitude to the rest of the family.
I would start the row discussion by explaining that everyone who lives here has to compromise and do things they don't want to.
I understand why she doesn't normally have chores but perhaps now is a good opportunity to learn. You could sell it a little as preparation for going to uni in 2 years time? If she hates cooking then perhaps she could do more cleaning or laundry?
She probably struggles with empathy so needs it spelling out how unkind and hurtful it was to treat her dad that way. Try to give examples to illustrate how she might feel if treated unreasonably.
The thing that jumped out at me most was the fact that she hasn't been out since lockdown. I really feel that exercise is very helpful for mental health.