To think JK Rowling is a fabulous human being

[TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair]

I just came across her book, 'Very Good Lives' which is all about overcoming adversity. I think it's so important that successful women talk about the times they've failed and how success is about pushing past that. I'm reading it just at a time I need to hear that message. I can definitely recommend buying a copy if you are in need of a boost or have some pennies to spend on something nourishing.

I was also looking into her charity, Lumos, and I had no idea just how much she was trying to help disadvantaged children. I love that she's putting her money and position to good use.

The term 'national treasure' generally makes me want to poke my own eyeballs out with a rusty kitchen utensil but AIBU to say she is an utter treasure and we are lucky to have her. She makes the world a better place.

That's all!

Oh fuck, we're not going back to fucking toilets again, are we?

It is a clear and obvious abuse of women's human rights to place rapists with penises in female prisons.

(Which ought to be clear to anyone with even a fraction of a braincell in operation.)

Somehow becomes

"But, but, but, what about the really nice transwoman I know. Where is she supposed to go to the toilet?"

I am so fucking tired of this shit. JUST LEAVE WOMEN'S RIGHTS ALONE, OKAY?

@PurpleGhost

I have to ask - for the people that are adamant that transwomen are women, do you actually believe what you're saying? Like, 100% and no doubt about it? You don't actually see them as men but just think everyone should be kind?

I cannot understand how people can actually believe in this and never once doubt what they are saying.

I very much don't think TWAW. However, there is a very clear line, in the online communication at least, between those who seem more genuine and the aggressive, anime porn lot. And I see them as trans women rather than opportunist aggressive males.

for the people that are adamant that transwomen are women, do you actually believe what you're saying? Like, 100% and no doubt about it?

God knows, but it seems Wikki thinks yes woman for prison, refugees,changing rooms and bathrooms but it's a no for sports. Is that right Wikki?

The ‘huge risk’ in the male toilets is exactly why we don’t let men in women’s spaces. Any men. Effeminate men. Men who wish they were not men. Men who believe they are not men. All those men are men.

single transwoman be tarred with this brush?

Self ID means that there is no longer any objective definition of trans and whether or not an individual is trans becomes irrelevant.

A transwoman should not be able to use female toilets for example?
If the transwoman in question has chosen to retain their penis, then the ladies loo is not for them.
It's perfectly simple really? No penises in women's spaces.
Amazing how much confusion this causes, it's baffling.

Not all women menstruate, and not all who menstruate are women.

What are they, these mysterious ones who menstruate but aren't women?

And I think there are articles about Caster Semenya having gone through a male puberty rather than a female puberty. I am happy to be proven wrong on this

Again, Caster has a DSD (which used to be called being intersex) and is not trans.

Caster has male chromosomes but her condition means that she is not hormonally the same as men. She has much higher testosterone levels than a woman, but the testosterone does not work in the same way as in a normal man's body. She has an unfair advantage against women, but would be at an unfair disadvantage if she competed against men. It is a difficult situation, and I really feel for her.

This is totally different from transwomen who are fully biologically male, both in their chromosomes and hormones. Most TW athletes do not take female hormones and, even if they do, this is by choice - unlike Caster who is affected by the hormones her body produces naturally, and who has no choice in the matter.

And what about the transwomen that aren't so obviously transwomen? I have met trans women I would have had no idea were trans unless they had told me. Or is it only the transwomen who meet our ideals of femininity? What then about butch females?

Even thought it is obvious that they would be at HUGE risk by using male toilets?

I agree with you male violence is indeed a huge problem. And needs addressing. It doesn't get addressed by making women and girls into human shields for other men.

Many people couldn't care less where transwomen go to the toilet. They are far more concerned about the defunding of rape refuges, women's sports, sterilising children, and giving rapists access to incarcerated women as part of their sentence.

Is it only toilets that concerns you? Because if it is, a third option is generally accepted as a good solution.

Accidentally bolded my third paragraph. That's me, not you.

@Winesalot Thank you!! That is great and very helpful.

from what I have read of Castor, even though they may have experienced male, rather than female, puberty, they weren't aware of that fact. It must have been incredibly distressing.

Clearly ideals of femininity are irrelevant. That’s the whole point.

“What then about butch females?”

Obviously, butch females are women. What a vile comment.

@Helmetbymidnight

for the people that are adamant that transwomen are women, do you actually believe what you're saying? Like, 100% and no doubt about it?

God knows, but it seems Wikki thinks yes woman for prison, refugees,changing rooms and bathrooms but it's a no for sports. Is that right Wikki?

I am also interested to know if you believe that transwomen are in fact women, does that also mean that you believe that they have access to the sex discrimination acts set up around the world to protect women's jobs and education and their right to have equal access to employment and education?

So it is entirely wonderful and fair that a male bodied person wins awards, promotions and scholarships set aside to encourage females in an effort to move past discrimination that comes from biological sex? Or don't you believe that this discrimination is happening anymore?

You will be supported on Mumsnet because of the anti-trans rhetoric. My opinion on her has changed massively. People should be free to live their lives. I can't vote on the app but YABU.

It is a whole world of fucking madness @winesalot

[quote WikkiTikkiWoo]@Winesalot Thank you!! That is great and very helpful.

from what I have read of Castor, even though they may have experienced male, rather than female, puberty, they weren't aware of that fact. It must have been incredibly distressing.[/quote]
There is NO doubt that it would be very distressing for her to have discovered this. However, when you have a situation where the top 3 athletes in the world for a race have experienced male puberty but are racing against females, you kinda have to question what is actually fair vs kind? I do anyway.

@PurpleGhost

I have to ask - for the people that are adamant that transwomen are women, do you actually believe what you're saying? Like, 100% and no doubt about it? You don't actually see them as men but just think everyone should be kind?

I cannot understand how people can actually believe in this and never once doubt what they are saying.

I don't think TWAW but I don't think that those who parrot that they are truly believe it. When you do manage to engage them in conversation they will nearly always slip up and say something that makes it clear they really don't really believe TWAW.

One incident that comes to mind is a discussion on here a while ago where a poster was insisiting over and over that tranwomen are women and anyone who disagreed was a bigot or ignorant or teransphobic...you know the usual spiel. Eventually someone asked what would happen if she went for a smear test and the nurse was a transwoman if she wasn't comfortable with that. The TWAW poster then immeditley replied with it wasn't a big deal because all they had to do was tell them they would rather have an 'actual woman' carry the procedure out...so essentially admitting right there they didn't believe a transwoman is a woman.

I think this is often why they will refuse to debate or even answer any questions that should be easy to answer if they honestly believed what they were saying. They know fine well that eventually they will slip up.

The advantage conferred by male puberty:

boysvswomen.com/#/

NB this is comparing female Olympians against male schoolboys.

*transphobic.

What are they, these mysterious ones who menstruate but aren't women?

Trans men, obviously.
May be biologically female, but they have every right to identify as men.
It takes nothing away from me to make language more inclusive.

So. No transwoman should be given access to any female spaces?
no. They should not. Male people have male spaces. All female people have the right to privacy from male people.

A transwoman should not be able to use female toilets for example?
no. They should not. The female people in there, including female children, have a right to privacy from male people.

Even thought it is obvious that they would be at HUGE risk by using male toilets?
no. They aren't. However, if they wish to campaign for extra spaces devoted to male people who don't want to share with their own, male sex, they are entitled to do so.

This is what it sounds like when female people say no to male people. All male people, no special exceptions.
It makes people very uncomfortable when women won't subjugate their own needs to those of men. Even special men. Which is why we should become accustomed to the idea that women can say no to men where their own personal privacy, rights and safety apply.

If your reaction to women simply saying no to men is anger, that probably should tell you something about yourself.

Bonzabaybee (great name )

When you realise this is not about just being 'kind' and the breadth of the potential for harm to women in UK and across the world, you cannot unsee it.

@Helmetbymidnight

I am not 100% entrenched in my views. I am learning - like I hope everyone is.

What I very very strongly believe though is it is possible to keep women safe, and keep trans women safe.

A transwoman has no less right to safety than I do. Or anyone else.

Or is it simply that you don't want non feminine trans women in womens spaces. How do you know the women in the next stall in the toilet isn't a transwoman?

I'm assuming that because you are using the word 'stall', not 'cubicle' you are from the US.

There are no 'bathroom bills' in the UK. We haven't really had 'public bath houses' in the UK since Victorian times. We have public toilets.

There is no general law in the UK that restricts entry to a public toilet on the basic of sex. Many toilets are not sex specific. It is unlikely that this will change.

However there are laws that allow services and spaces to discriminate on the basis of sex. This allows men to have gentleman clubs and join he masons (Trans activist Edward Lord is a well know mason), but more importantly it enables the existence of single sex spaces in situations where women are vulnerable.

Whether or not you or I agree or disagree on whether a woman is vulnerable in a toilet is not relevant to the fact that if the law were changed or interpreted in line with trans activist demands men would have access to all female spaces.

@Bonzabaybee

Clearly ideals of femininity are irrelevant. That’s the whole point.

“What then about butch females?”

Obviously, butch females are women. What a vile comment.

I meant. In a how do you police it kind of way?

I saw mentioned that "anyone with a penis should not be allowed..."
(this thread is moving to fast to find it again..)

So, transwomen who no longer have a penis can use women's spaces? Just those that, for what ever reason, haven't had reassignment surgery can't?