To think the Covid 19 crisis has revealed a scourge of ableism and ageism in our society?

[Madhairday]

I see it on every thread about lockdown. The elderly (over 60s) and vulnerable (of whatever age) are again and again dehumanised and cast as less worthy of help than the young and the fit, who should be prioritised because they have longer and healthier life left before them. Phrases like one I saw just now about how these people will die soon anyway so why are children suffering?

I am really tired of being othered. I am really tired of being made the reason for the suffering endured by many in lockdown. Really tired of being told I should be grateful others are suffering for me. Just really tired.

Before all this I'd never have dreamed these attitudes would come to light, but in the past months I've been repeatedly punched in the gut with some of the words thrown out against the aged and the disabled and chronically ill. It seems that we truly live in a world where not all lives are equal, where in fact many are worth less than others.

Lots of people are suffering due to lockdown and the effects will continue to cause suffering. The shielded know this and are affected by it as much as everyone else. I have lost my income as well as not being able to touch another human being for nearly 3 months. Many of my shielded friends mental health is shot, too, yet on threads about mental health the shielded are yet again othered and in fact blamed for the mental health issues of those not shielding.

Many are suffering in lockdown. We know this. We know the NHS has cut off much treatment (largely because the spread of covid in hospitals is so uncontainable that they cannot risk bringing already vulnerable people onto wards as covid would exacerbate conditions and kill in greater numbers, as well as the risk for frontline staff, yet many people here seem to think the NHS has narrowed down 'because only covid deaths are important to them' )

I am deeply concerned at the level of ableism and ageism I see on here every single day at the moment. If we said someone else's life mattered less because they were black or gay we would rightly be torn to pieces, but so many are saying lives are less due to age and vulnerability, and this is going unchallenged, again and again and again.

I see it. I see it every day. I feel it deep down, a sense of worthlessness because I have long term chronic illnesses. I am likely to live many more years, however, but that doesn't fit in with the narrative so many have built around the shielded and those dying of Covid, that they must be near death anyway.

Do lives really rank one over the other due to age and illness? Is this where we are now?

I agree lockdown is hurting people. I am not one of the lockdown should last forever people. I'm just getting on with shielding quietly and carefully. But I do fear for a second wave if it's relaxed too quickly.

I would like to ask for some compassion today in the way people speak. I'd like to ask that people don't denegrate others as less worthy or state that covid is just a bad cold. Have a care for those who feel othered and dehumanised by the rhetoric that flies at us day after day.

" Why is my 13 and 10 year old not allowed in when people of 80+ who are statistically way more likely to get ill allowed in??! It’s not acceptable "

If your 13 year old was shopping for the family I'm sure he'd be allowed in. I presume you mean not allowed in with you when there's no need for him to be, just like the shops near me don't allow two adults together. The avoidance of children in shops and groups of adults is for a totally different reason that 80 year olds are advised to get someone else to do the shopping for them. You're mixing different things.

Well said Ragged and Nihiloxica. Is the help really going to be there for children who might need support following Lockdown? Of course not and that's the crux of the matter. IF children DID have equal rights to healthcare and resources there wouldn't be and issue but the fact is that they don't. They don't have a voice or any political clout and if their parents dare to stand up for their rights to a future not blighted by austerity, debt and diminishing opportunity, they are accused of not being arsed to entertain them at home. Growing moves over the last few decades to create more and more child free spaces is a reflection of how reviled children generally are. I don't doubt that thousands of people would like to see children detained at home and not seen again until they reach 18.

I don't think it's revealed it so much as highlighted it, as a PP mentioned.

Of course society is riddled with inequalities and prejudices of all kinds, from the ableism and ageism you point to here, to the horrors that have prompted the BLM marches. It's only very recently that there's been any attempt to ensure that this is not the case, with the legal steps taken to curb certain language and to try to outlaw certain practices and behaviour. But it's not gone away and of course it comes out pretty damn quickly when people feel under threat. They retrench and look to protect their own interests.

It's bleak, but the fact that the other impulse exists, to address the gaps and inequalities, is all that can be clung onto for hope, and when society gets through this and back on any kind of even keel, ideally with a government that doesn't endorse and elevate self-interest, then let's hope that progress is made and future generations are more tolerant.

But until then, I'm surprised anyone is surprised that these attitudes prevail. We can hope for better, but to expect it is likely to be let down.

I agree with you OP, my DF is over 70and I have a brother with cerebral palsy, I hate that their lives are perceived as lesser than any other. Yes on the whole if a teenager dies that has their whole life ahead of them it is heartbreaking, but if it is your elderly relative that dies or your relative with an underlying health complication that dies it hurts just as much. I have noticed that whenever someone asks these people who say we should get back to normal stop punishing everyone for the vulnerable who out of their family and friends they would sacrifice they never answer. I want things to go back to normal for my 2 DC and my DH, so he can go back to work for his mental health, but not at the expense of anyone else.

Yes on the whole if a teenager dies that has their whole life ahead of them it is heartbreaking, but if it is your elderly relative that dies or your relative with an underlying health complication that dies it hurts just as much.

Ever lost a young child? I beg to differ. I really, really, really do. Wow. Just fucking mind-blown.

"I would like to ask for some compassion today in the way people speak. I'd like to ask that people don't denegrate others as less worthy or state that covid is just a bad cold. Have a care for those who feel othered and dehumanised by the rhetoric that flies at us day after day."
There are quite a few posts on this thread that suggest posters didn't bother to read the OP's post properly.

If you cannot come on here and speak compassionately and don't denigrate others then please just read and move on to the next thread. I don't want this poster to be made to feel worse than she has already been made to feel. I want her to feel better.

I'm 30, a teacher, have my own 5 year old and am clinically vulnerable.
I care about my class. If we fully reopen schools, I will go back because I will be needed for staffing numbers.
But reading posts like some of the ones here who think the risk of me dying (a real risk) is less important than an extra month of tv and home school for their children? I'm questioning whether that is a risk worth taking for people who are teaching their children to belittle and devalue my life.

Have also had an extremely vulnerable child and now have one with several special needs and one with only one additional support need.

Completely agree with Nihil and Ragged.

We need to get back to normal so we can shield those that need shielding. So perhaps long term home schooling for shielded children, provided by shielded teachers online? Extra money to support those shielding or at home shielding children, paid for by those of us able to go back to work.
End of lockdown shouldn't mean the end of protecting those who are shielding. Half of my extended family are shielding. I want to get back to normal so we can have money to support them, so they can be safe.. Not because I resent them.

@Chipsahoy nice idea but very few people are actually shielded. I'm at high risk (told by my consultant) but don't qualify for shielding.
It would need to be extended to the clinically vulnerable group as well. Thing is, then there wouldn't be enough staff to open schools.

But yes, something like your idea. Anything that doesn't just forget the people at the edges would be good. The logistics would be difficult but that's exactly why we should be talking about it.
Sorry posted too soon above before i finished typing.

I agree, OP. I have a type 1 diabetic 10 year old. The statistics on type 1 are frightening but across type 1 forums I am supposed to be reassured....wait for it..,,that no one under 20 with type 1 has died. Fucking 20 years old. A condition that no one asked for and with which you can live a long and productive life and we’re supposed to be reassured that no one under 20 has died in this pandemic. Let that sink in for a bit and then try and argue that ageism and ableism aren’t a thing

@Howaboutanewname

I agree. It's bloody grim for Type 1s. It doesn't help that when people hear the word diabetic, they immediately assume Type 2. Type 1s navigate each day with the balancing act of trying to artificially recreate a functioning pancreas. It requires rigorous discipline and monitoring and this blasted virus and its specific risks to Type 1s is a frickin bummer. I understand how you feel.

I sort of agree but I do think that the situation is more nuanced than that, especially over the "ageism". TBH this is yet another example where we throw the younger generations under a bus to "protect" the older generations. So we shaft the young with not being able to afford a house, years of austerity but a triple lock on pensions and now not only are many of the young losing their jobs and children their education to put a lockdown in place that, inevitably, proportionately protects the elderly more than the young, but we are going to saddle them with billions of national debt and expect them to pay for it. (We already are in London where, to provide the bail out funding TfL needed children are losing their free travel on the buses whilst the 60+ retain their free travel on every form of public transport - the children have never been so lucky as to have that). I think what you are seeing as ageism is a backlash against years of generational inequality.

My dd had to spend considerably more than 11 weeks laid up regularly due to disability when she was younger. It was bad and she had a lot of catching up to do education wise- because unlike most children in lockdown she was actually too ill to do schoolwork at home during those times. But to compare it to somebody dying or risking organ failure- she'd be the first to laugh in your face!

Yes to this. I too was off school for prolonged periods as a youngster, and not able to do work as too ill, but didn't see it as an infringement of rights. So sorry cory for all you and your dd have gone through.

There are a lot of posts on this thread highlighting the polarising effect I was speaking of in the OP. Making it about 'erasing children' for the sake of saving a few elderly/vulnerable people. My teenagers do not feel erased; they simply see it as a necessary evil the whole of society have to endure in order that our health service isn't overwhelmed which would have an even greater costs to lives across the board. My ds has missed his GCSEs and his prom etc; he does not see this as an infringement of his human rights but sees himself as being part of something bigger in order to give value to all lives. Children are not being erased, that is a ridiculous statement. Just because they are less at risk does not mean they shouldn't be part of the overall effort to curtail the virus - they can still spread it, and like cory said, the effect of a non-lockdown scenario could have far greater ramifications for their own physical and mental health, especially in terms of losing more people they love at a younger age. But it seems that their rights to see friends and go to the park should take priority over the breakdown of a society in a short time - that's entitlement, not erasure, and most kids are fine, if bored and fed up. It's horrible that some children are facing more abuse, but I would say a big problem with that is the systematic erosion of services over the past 10 years in particular which means the support for these families is poor at the best of times - the same with mental health services.

I'm in no way trying to excuse how you've been treated because I completely agree with you and I find it completely heartbreaking that we can return to a middle-ages mindset so quickly as a civilization.

I would like to say however, I think during a huge chunk of the lockdown a lot of people were frustrated and angry that their parents/grandparents and their other elderly friends were not taking COVID at all seriously and basically acting like it didnt even exist. Of course, people from all ages were acting the same anywhere you looked, but it's a lot more personal when you're isolating your whole family to protect your elderly parents, and they are still "just popping in" to the shops for fresh milk every other day.

I'm angry that disabled people like me who don't fall in to the shielding group have been totally ignored. I'm housebound, have severe mobility problems as well as several autoimmune conditions, had to prove that I was unable to go out to do shopping etc to qualify for my disability benefits but was ignored when the qualification for shielding & help was set up, there is only one supermarket that I can now manage to get home deliveries from now.

Absolutely it has, and almost from the very start of the pandemic it become ugly and obvious.

I can't bear to read this thread, because I know it will be full of the most obnoxious denial, but yes, OP, you are correct.

I don't want this poster to be made to feel worse than she has already been made to feel. I want her to feel better.

Thank you @NotEverythingIsBlackandWhite. Kindness matters

I'm so sad to read what some of you are going through with all of this, and especially for those in the vulnerable but not shielding group who seem to get it from both sides sometimes and feel sidelined.

Nat699

I did see your post as I was posting, and I'm so sorry. It's very difficult. Disability rights are largely ignored in society, and ableism abounds. It saddens but does not suprise me you have had difficulties in getting access to basic goods.

If it helps, disabled people have not been invisible to me over this period of time, and I've used it to learn more about disability rights. I hope I can support disability advocates and organisations in the future.

I feel like society really hates children.

Apparently children in London will be temporarily losing their right to free bus travel. Yet the freedom pass for over 60s will remain just with a few tweaks to times they can use it. The public would be up in arms if the over 60s had free travel removed but this is fine for children apparently and no one challenges it or cares.

Just like when child benefit became means tested and sure start centres closed, no one cares yet making the free tv license for the elderly means tested caused uproar.

Says it all

Imagine how much more it hates disabled children, then.

You know what I find ironic...all the people, mainly middle aged men, who rant about speed cameras and traffic calming measures. Things which would make the roads safer for children in the main. These people won't even reduce their speed to help protect the lives of children and now expect children to sacrifice their education and more to protect wider society. It's grotesque

With regards to the ageism if CV affected the young rather than the elderly I suspect that only children would be at home because politicians would want to keep their voters sweet. I really don't think that the elderly would have accepted being on lockdown when they are low risk the same way that children have.

Completely agree @flamingochill