To think the Covid 19 crisis has revealed a scourge of ableism and ageism in our society?

[Madhairday]

I see it on every thread about lockdown. The elderly (over 60s) and vulnerable (of whatever age) are again and again dehumanised and cast as less worthy of help than the young and the fit, who should be prioritised because they have longer and healthier life left before them. Phrases like one I saw just now about how these people will die soon anyway so why are children suffering?

I am really tired of being othered. I am really tired of being made the reason for the suffering endured by many in lockdown. Really tired of being told I should be grateful others are suffering for me. Just really tired.

Before all this I'd never have dreamed these attitudes would come to light, but in the past months I've been repeatedly punched in the gut with some of the words thrown out against the aged and the disabled and chronically ill. It seems that we truly live in a world where not all lives are equal, where in fact many are worth less than others.

Lots of people are suffering due to lockdown and the effects will continue to cause suffering. The shielded know this and are affected by it as much as everyone else. I have lost my income as well as not being able to touch another human being for nearly 3 months. Many of my shielded friends mental health is shot, too, yet on threads about mental health the shielded are yet again othered and in fact blamed for the mental health issues of those not shielding.

Many are suffering in lockdown. We know this. We know the NHS has cut off much treatment (largely because the spread of covid in hospitals is so uncontainable that they cannot risk bringing already vulnerable people onto wards as covid would exacerbate conditions and kill in greater numbers, as well as the risk for frontline staff, yet many people here seem to think the NHS has narrowed down 'because only covid deaths are important to them' )

I am deeply concerned at the level of ableism and ageism I see on here every single day at the moment. If we said someone else's life mattered less because they were black or gay we would rightly be torn to pieces, but so many are saying lives are less due to age and vulnerability, and this is going unchallenged, again and again and again.

I see it. I see it every day. I feel it deep down, a sense of worthlessness because I have long term chronic illnesses. I am likely to live many more years, however, but that doesn't fit in with the narrative so many have built around the shielded and those dying of Covid, that they must be near death anyway.

Do lives really rank one over the other due to age and illness? Is this where we are now?

I agree lockdown is hurting people. I am not one of the lockdown should last forever people. I'm just getting on with shielding quietly and carefully. But I do fear for a second wave if it's relaxed too quickly.

I would like to ask for some compassion today in the way people speak. I'd like to ask that people don't denegrate others as less worthy or state that covid is just a bad cold. Have a care for those who feel othered and dehumanised by the rhetoric that flies at us day after day.

Children are not the only ones that have been locked down, FFS. And they haven’t been given a life sentence. To read some of these posts you’d think kids had been put away for years! 1. It’s been a couple of months. 2. They’ve been allowed outside. 3. They have the internet and plenty of other wonderful communication devices. 4. Children are wonderfully adaptable if you let them.

Honestly - a 6 year old is unlikely even to remember in 20 years.

It is not ageist or disablist to point out the statistics on risk show that overwhelmingly the risk is age and to a lesser extent sex. Underlying conditions are massively massively less important than age. Type 1 diabetes doubles a person’s risk but for a child’s that is doubling an exceptionally low risk anyway so the risk is still exceptionally low. So the risk for a child with diabetes goes from something like 1 in a million to 1 in 500,000. So yes, that should give some comfort to the parents of a 10 year old with diabetes and it is hardly callous to point it out.

@Poetryinaction

I agree with bogroll on page 1. Children have been dismissed and have sacrificed a lot, despite not being at risk. My 70 year old dad can play golf, meet friends, go shopping. No one bats an eyelid. My 6 year old saw no one outside the family, didn't visit a shop or play in a park for 11 weeks. If there is ageism there, I'd say it's against the young. Don't get me started on teenagers.

What utter bollocks. Throughout the lockdown period your 70 year old dad could not play golf or meet friends or anyone outside of his household at all, none of us could. If he was doing his own shopping, well good for him, there’s certainly no pleasure in it! Now he can meet people with social distancing, as can your child. Don’t make things up to suit your own twisted narrative.

There's a difference between "ism" and facts.

It sucks to be in a higher risk group. Ranting about it isn't going to reduce your risk.

Given that the UK govt strategy is to flatten the curve, not eradicate CV19... they are expecting everyone to be exposed to it, sooner or later.

If you don't want to be exposed, stay locked down.

No one is personally attacking anyone here. It is a global crisis. Not a personal affront.

The young and healthy are bearing the brunt of this to protect the old and those with underlying conditions. They are allowed to be annoyed and disappointed at their lost educational and other opportunities without being accused of being ageist or ablist.

Some people say let’s just shield the vulnerable and let everyone else get on with their life’s. But it’s not that easy. Many vulnerable people have young children so how does that work. And they are still going to need to go out to doctors appointments, pharmacies, dentist appointments like everyone else. You can’t expect vulnerable people to stay locked up forever with their families. We need to work out how to keep the virus levels in society low. And that requires some changes unfortunately.

No, over 70s could always meet one friend. Small children couldn't because they would have had to have an adult with them, and we were only allowed to meet one other person. Small children still can't play in parks.

The lockdown came too late so the mainly vulnerable who suffered and died had already caught it. It’s still out there now and there should be more in place to protect the vulnerable financially, physically and emotionally, whilst enabling the young and healthy to return to work etc and support the vulnerable ones.

"This lockdown should never have been implemented in my opinion.

I’m no expert. But the reason this country has been so badly affected is because it is full.

70 million people, (that we know of), on a relatively small island.

This virus is just nature's way of thinning things out a little.

I don’t wish anyone harm or death, but what will be will be!"

Saw this gem on another thread. Absolutely appalling

Why does it matter what a 6 year old remembers in 20 years? Or a what a 70 year old remembers in 20 years? It matters what is happening now. And that these experiences, or lack thereof, can have an effect on weeks, months or years to come.

Not sure which of these is true

if people are suggesting that rather than get the virus under control so that everyone can have liberty , they are instead suggesting to protect the vulnerable because

The actually believe the there would be no or minimal NHS and economic impact if we protected the vulnerable until a treatment or vaccine became available

They actually want the vulnerable to give up their lives and jobs and become an impoverished underclass thus allowing the rest to gain wealth at their expense

Poetryinaction Your last sentence doesn’t make sense coupled with your first. If a child doesn’t remember the lockdown - which has been a matter of weeks - how could they have an effect (psychologically at least) in years to come?

We do not want our children to become an improverished underclass with shortened education and mass unemployment due to the lockdown.

OP - you are showing a lack of empathy for those many young people whose lives will be changed forever by this economic mess. Many retired people will be able to go back to normal in a year’s time or so, with pretty much nothing unchanged, but those who have been made unemployed or whose job offers have been pulled will take many years and for many their lives will have a totally different trajectory.

Yes attackedbycritters that is what people are saying.

Because you can be affected by things without having a memory of them. They might have an effect for years, but not 20 years.

Social distancing is likely to be in place for at least six months which is massive in a child’s life. We place huge emphasis on socialisation in young puppies - why not in children too? There are developmental stages which if missed, children do not get back.

People are being so dismissive of children on this thread. Ageist. It is not a matter of weeks, it is a matter of months, which is a large proportion of a young child's life.

I would actually say it's the opposite. Everyone's lives have been halting, many futures destroyed to protect the elderly and clinically vulnerable. We had covid19, it was one evening of medium grade fever (solved but taking ibroprofen) and 2 weeks lacking taste and smell. We have bent over backwards to protect the vulnerable.

Disabled people have always been 'othered' my son is 15, several things in life he hasn't be invited too, parents don't want a disabled child for the afternoon, despite him not needing any extra care.

Teachers have ore assume she won't be able to go on a trip or join in an activity or event so it's easier to leave him out.

We are trying to move (HA) but many houses are pre assumed not to suit rather than making very minor changes.

COVID has brought to light how little people think of us, we've become a chore and a burden to people that don't even know us. I haven't dared to ask for someone to drop shopping off because I don't want to give another reason for people to feel that.

The world is a very ugly place at the moment and colours are starting to become clearer.

But where will we magic up extra healthy non vulnerable teachers from? Our school had 8 teachers shielding before lockdown. Vulnerable people are actually part of society and are needed to make everything work.

Lets be honest our view of the restrictions and the risk of covid depends entirely on our own circumstances. We are all selfish and think of ourselves first.
Parents of children and teens who have jobs want them back at school and think that lockdown should be eased quicker.
People who are vulnerable think differently etc etc
We are all primarily concerned with ourselves and the impact on us.

OP.

You asked for people to be kind. And this is what you got. There's plenty of places on Mumsnet for people to complain about lockdown, this should not have been one of them.

People are complaining that schools need to go back, as if the uk has shut schools for the longest and been more restrictive than other countries. When the opposite is the case. Other countries have much fewer cases and still aren’t opening schools. We are in a pandemic. These are things that need to happen unfortunately.

I don't think that's true cansu. Most people are concerned about all sections of society. It is being dismissive of one section that bothers people. I am deeply concerned for older people, vulnerable people, lonely people, people losing their jobs, mentally unwell people... that does not mean I cannot empathise with others, like teenagers, for example.

OP - you are showing a lack of empathy for those many young people whose lives will be changed forever by this economic mess

Why are you making my OP about children? My post was about my experience as a disabled person of ableist language which has stepped up massively over the past months, especially here on MN. How does that make me lack empathy for children? Ask my children if I lack empathy for their future and they would get very angry and ask you to put in perspective a couple of months of inconvenience and boredom with years of experienced life as a sick person coming to realise they are seen as a burden and often a scrounger.

I have absolutely no illusions about the effects of all this on our young people and of course I worry about their future. But your accusing me of lacking empathy is sheer whataboutery when my OP was an attempt to share the experience many of the vulnerable groups are living with at this time.

If I was saying I was experiencing sexism or racism you would not try to explain it away or tell me others are suffering so I have no empathy, would you? I hope not. I would hope that we can all be kind to one another and allow for everyone's experience. I am sad for my friends little ones who are struggling but that does not mean that I should shut up about the language I hear that dehumanises me, surely?

I don't know why this thread has become yet another lockdown argument either, really.